In Musicals, Over the Top Is Just Right

Why does musical theater continue to be such a popular \r\ngenre?

John Cameron Mitchell:  Well, I think, probably\r\n the earliest theater was a musical, when they talk about Western \r\ntheater coming out of Greek religious performance, the dithyramb, the \r\nbacchic, you know, rites. And that was movement and music oriented and \r\nsinging and... so I don’t, you know, since then it maybe started to \r\ncodify a little bit in the 20th century of what a musical was supposed \r\nto be... in terms of the kind of music and the subjects of the stories. \r\n But anything that uses songs—I mean, there’s opera, which tends to be, \r\nyou know, all song—but a musical tends to be a story that uses songs to \r\npropel a plot and evoke emotion and help the story in a way that a \r\nstraight play does in a different way.

So I remember seeing a \r\nRobert Wilson piece that he did with Tom Waits and William Burroughs, \r\ncalled "The Black Rider," which was very, you know, as far from a \r\nBroadway musical as you could think, but it had dialogue, it had \r\nmusical... it had songs, it had a linear, or somewhat linear narrative, \r\nand it was, I realized this was a musical.  You know, we were inspired \r\nby that, inspired by something a little bit less linear, like Sandra \r\nBernhard’s "Without You I’m Nothing," and, you know, "Ziggy Stardust," \r\n"Tommy," which are much less linear narratives but have kind of a song \r\ncycle feel about them; and definitely from Broadway, which is, you know,\r\n much more linear narrative, which I prefer—or traditional narrative, \r\nnot necessarily linear—with a beginning, middle, and end, and the, you \r\nknow, the importance of arrival.  You know, some people like stories to \r\nmeander and can just sort of, you know, reflect, when there’s a pretty \r\nimage happening.  But I really need an escalating story; it doesn’t have\r\n to be fast, doesn’t have to be slow, but I need something going \r\nsomewhere and arriving somewhere.  Not that the arrival has to be, you \r\nknow, all loose ends tied up, but something that’s using metaphors, is \r\nextending the metaphor, that’s, you know, about something that’s \r\ninvestigating things that confound us, that interest us, that, and \r\nultimately try to be productive or useful to the audience.  You know, \r\nnot just a jerk-off... well, I mean, watching somebody jerk off can be \r\nuseful, but not everybody.  And there’s a sense, you know, trying to \r\nfigure things out, to make things better.  Maybe that’s just my \r\nutilitarian, kind of Catholic thing, is good works.  The stuff that I’m \r\ninvolved with has to be useful to me, but also to an audience.

Question:\r\n How do you avoid making a musical clichéd or over the top?

\r\nJohn Cameron Mitchell: 
You know, "over the top" implies it’s just, \r\nit’s too much for what it should be.  To me, "over the top" is a \r\npejorative.  You can have something extremely heightened and highly \r\nstylized and it’s not "over the top" because it’s exactly what it should\r\n be, you know?  And "Hedwig" has elements that some people would call \r\n"over the top," but to me are just enough, you know, are just right.

And\r\n "Hedwig" was a conscious amalgamation of all elements of different \r\nstage performances, techniques like drag, which has a tradition, doesn’t\r\n necessarily stray—hasn’t always necessarily strayed lately into more \r\nserious themes, but certainly Shakespeare and then the Greeks, you know,\r\n there was elements of drag, men playing women, Kabuki, where serious \r\nthings were examined. Also standup, stand up comedy; the rock show, the \r\npunk rock show, the conventions of that; performance art; and the \r\nwell-made play, and, you know, a well-made Broadway musical.  So using \r\nelements of all of those, you know, and trying to keep the integrity of \r\nall of them.  But, having it be a whole, you know, a holistic kind of \r\nentity, was our goal, which meant that the stand-up had to be funny, the\r\n drag had to be, you know, using some of the comedic and the double \r\nentendres that you might come out of, the rock show, the bank had to be \r\nthere, it couldn’t be under, you know, at the back of the stage, had to \r\nbe up front, you know, the songs had to propel the plot, you know, and \r\nthe characters, which is what Broadway, which is what Broadway musicals \r\ndo well, and so, giving each of the forms their integrity, but also \r\nmelding them in a way that was new.

Recorded on May 3, 2010
Interviewed by Austin Allen

Take Greek drama, Shakespearean comedy, and Kabuki theater, stir in some punk rock, and you’ll get a genre audiences love.

Are we really addicted to technology?

Fear that new technologies are addictive isn't a modern phenomenon.

Credit: Rodion Kutsaev via Unsplash
Technology & Innovation

This article was originally published on our sister site, Freethink, which has partnered with the Build for Tomorrow podcast to go inside new episodes each month. Subscribe here to learn more about the crazy, curious things from history that shaped us, and how we can shape the future.

In many ways, technology has made our lives better. Through smartphones, apps, and social media platforms we can now work more efficiently and connect in ways that would have been unimaginable just decades ago.

But as we've grown to rely on technology for a lot of our professional and personal needs, most of us are asking tough questions about the role technology plays in our own lives. Are we becoming too dependent on technology to the point that it's actually harming us?

In the latest episode of Build for Tomorrow, host and Entrepreneur Editor-in-Chief Jason Feifer takes on the thorny question: is technology addictive?

Popularizing medical language

What makes something addictive rather than just engaging? It's a meaningful distinction because if technology is addictive, the next question could be: are the creators of popular digital technologies, like smartphones and social media apps, intentionally creating things that are addictive? If so, should they be held responsible?

To answer those questions, we've first got to agree on a definition of "addiction." As it turns out, that's not quite as easy as it sounds.

If we don't have a good definition of what we're talking about, then we can't properly help people.


"Over the past few decades, a lot of effort has gone into destigmatizing conversations about mental health, which of course is a very good thing," Feifer explains. It also means that medical language has entered into our vernacular —we're now more comfortable using clinical words outside of a specific diagnosis.

"We've all got that one friend who says, 'Oh, I'm a little bit OCD' or that friend who says, 'Oh, this is my big PTSD moment,'" Liam Satchell, a lecturer in psychology at the University of Winchester and guest on the podcast, says. He's concerned about how the word "addiction" gets tossed around by people with no background in mental health. An increased concern surrounding "tech addiction" isn't actually being driven by concern among psychiatric professionals, he says.

"These sorts of concerns about things like internet use or social media use haven't come from the psychiatric community as much," Satchell says. "They've come from people who are interested in technology first."

The casual use of medical language can lead to confusion about what is actually a mental health concern. We need a reliable standard for recognizing, discussing, and ultimately treating psychological conditions.

"If we don't have a good definition of what we're talking about, then we can't properly help people," Satchell says. That's why, according to Satchell, the psychiatric definition of addiction being based around experiencing distress or significant family, social, or occupational disruption needs to be included in any definition of addiction we may use.

Too much reading causes... heat rashes?

But as Feifer points out in his podcast, both popularizing medical language and the fear that new technologies are addictive aren't totally modern phenomena.

Take, for instance, the concept of "reading mania."

In the 18th Century, an author named J. G. Heinzmann claimed that people who read too many novels could experience something called "reading mania." This condition, Heinzmann explained, could cause many symptoms, including: "weakening of the eyes, heat rashes, gout, arthritis, hemorrhoids, asthma, apoplexy, pulmonary disease, indigestion, blocking of the bowels, nervous disorder, migraines, epilepsy, hypochondria, and melancholy."

"That is all very specific! But really, even the term 'reading mania' is medical," Feifer says.

"Manic episodes are not a joke, folks. But this didn't stop people a century later from applying the same term to wristwatches."

Indeed, an 1889 piece in the Newcastle Weekly Courant declared: "The watch mania, as it is called, is certainly excessive; indeed it becomes rabid."

Similar concerns have echoed throughout history about the radio, telephone, TV, and video games.

"It may sound comical in our modern context, but back then, when those new technologies were the latest distraction, they were probably really engaging. People spent too much time doing them," Feifer says. "And what can we say about that now, having seen it play out over and over and over again? We can say it's common. It's a common behavior. Doesn't mean it's the healthiest one. It's just not a medical problem."

Few today would argue that novels are in-and-of-themselves addictive — regardless of how voraciously you may have consumed your last favorite novel. So, what happened? Were these things ever addictive — and if not, what was happening in these moments of concern?

People are complicated, our relationship with new technology is complicated, and addiction is complicated — and our efforts to simplify very complex things, and make generalizations across broad portions of the population, can lead to real harm.


There's a risk of pathologizing normal behavior, says Joel Billieux, professor of clinical psychology and psychological assessment at the University of Lausanne in Switzerland, and guest on the podcast. He's on a mission to understand how we can suss out what is truly addictive behavior versus what is normal behavior that we're calling addictive.

For Billieux and other professionals, this isn't just a rhetorical game. He uses the example of gaming addiction, which has come under increased scrutiny over the past half-decade. The language used around the subject of gaming addiction will determine how behaviors of potential patients are analyzed — and ultimately what treatment is recommended.

"For a lot of people you can realize that the gaming is actually a coping (mechanism for) social anxiety or trauma or depression," says Billieux.

"Those cases, of course, you will not necessarily target gaming per se. You will target what caused depression. And then as a result, If you succeed, gaming will diminish."

In some instances, a person might legitimately be addicted to gaming or technology, and require the corresponding treatment — but that treatment might be the wrong answer for another person.

"None of this is to discount that for some people, technology is a factor in a mental health problem," says Feifer.

"I am also not discounting that individual people can use technology such as smartphones or social media to a degree where it has a genuine negative impact on their lives. But the point here to understand is that people are complicated, our relationship with new technology is complicated, and addiction is complicated — and our efforts to simplify very complex things, and make generalizations across broad portions of the population, can lead to real harm."

Behavioral addiction is a notoriously complex thing for professionals to diagnose — even more so since the latest edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), the book professionals use to classify mental disorders, introduced a new idea about addiction in 2013.

"The DSM-5 grouped substance addiction with gambling addiction — this is the first time that substance addiction was directly categorized with any kind of behavioral addiction," Feifer says.

"And then, the DSM-5 went a tiny bit further — and proposed that other potentially addictive behaviors require further study."

This might not sound like that big of a deal to laypeople, but its effect was massive in medicine.

"Researchers started launching studies — not to see if a behavior like social media use can be addictive, but rather, to start with the assumption that social media use is addictive, and then to see how many people have the addiction," says Feifer.

Learned helplessness

The assumption that a lot of us are addicted to technology may itself be harming us by undermining our autonomy and belief that we have agency to create change in our own lives. That's what Nir Eyal, author of the books Hooked and Indistractable, calls 'learned helplessness.'

"The price of living in a world with so many good things in it is that sometimes we have to learn these new skills, these new behaviors to moderate our use," Eyal says. "One surefire way to not do anything is to believe you are powerless. That's what learned helplessness is all about."

So if it's not an addiction that most of us are experiencing when we check our phones 90 times a day or are wondering about what our followers are saying on Twitter — then what is it?

"A choice, a willful choice, and perhaps some people would not agree or would criticize your choices. But I think we cannot consider that as something that is pathological in the clinical sense," says Billieux.

Of course, for some people technology can be addictive.

"If something is genuinely interfering with your social or occupational life, and you have no ability to control it, then please seek help," says Feifer.

But for the vast majority of people, thinking about our use of technology as a choice — albeit not always a healthy one — can be the first step to overcoming unwanted habits.

For more, be sure to check out the Build for Tomorrow episode here.

Why the U.S. and Belgium are culture buddies

The Inglehart-Welzel World Cultural map replaces geographic accuracy with closeness in terms of values.

Credit: World Values Survey, public domain.
Strange Maps
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Evolution proves to be just about as ingenious as Nikola Tesla

Credit: Gerald Schömbs / Unsplash
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Michael C. Crair et al, Science, 2021.
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