Fostering a middle class in developing countries is in everyone’s interest. Failed states like Somalia promote terrorism and instability, affecting every part of our interconnected world.

Question: Should rich countries help poor countries and, if so, how?

Mary Robinson:  I do very much believe that they should, it’s an important component and we mustn’t let that slip.  There’s a certain amount of feeling that there's a financial crisis, can we really afford?  We have to.  Because we have a very connected world and what’s happening in other parts of the world will ultimately affect us unless you have social stability.  So it is in the outcome document of this summit that there must be a recommitment to the 0.7% of GDP, which is actually not a great amount, given the potential of being able to have a safer and more balanced world.

We also know now that the way in which we’re living our lives, based on carbon, in the rich parts of the world, is undermining development of the poorest parts and there’s a commitment that was made in Copenhagen for an additional $30 billion a year over the next three years to help the poorest and most vulnerable countries.  I want to see that money, as yet, I don’t see any new money being committed by countries.  And even though there’s a financial crisis, we can actually find the ability and then we need governments of the poor countries to have a real sense of their responsibility to govern on behalf of their people.

Question: How can you convince people and governments to give during economic hard times?
 
Mary Robinson:  I certainly very much understand the stress and the worry and the day-to-day concerns of people who have terrible mortgage problems, who are behind on their payments, who know that they have problems of school fees or university fees for the young people, etc. And it’s the same in the modern Ireland, we’re going through a very tough time in many countries in Europe and elsewhere.  But we have to see the connections in our world.  I mean, look at a country that has become what we call now a failed state, pretty well, Somalia.  You have pirates out on the open seas from Somalia.  You have a danger of terrorists being able to group where there is no law and order and finds ways of attacking elsewhere in the world.  We are much more interconnected than we have ever been.  It’s in our total interests to help to create middle classes in the developing countries. Then they will buy American goods, they will want to trade to the profit of everyone.  And so I think it’s hard when you’re really wondering how you’re going to meet the commitments for next month and real worries about food, as that woman has said.

But in fact, I think any kind of sense of political leadership now has to move in the direction of understanding the interconnections between our world and we will not have peace and security if we do not have fairer balances.  Because we’re not staying at the same population level, we’re going to go up from just under 7 billion people today to over 9 billion by 2050.  That’s the largest increase in population we’ll ever have seen, and many of them are in very poor countries.

So for stability for our own generation, but particularly for our children and grandchildren, we have to have this sense of an interconnected world.

Question: How do we ensure that aid is actually being used to improve conditions in poor countries?

Mary Robinson:  I still firmly believe we need to keep the commitments to development aid, but I also agree with an increasing number of African leaders and others who say, “We want to bring ourselves out of poverty.  We want fairer trade rules.  We want some subsidies removed that disadvantage us and when we’re trying to compete on cotton or sugar, etc.”  And I think that we need to have more emphasis on access to energy for the poorest.  One of the things that has helped poor countries greatly is the mobile phone.  That was the private sector creating a market in the poor countries and the mobile phone, you it attracts markets, it transfers money, it does help surveillance, you can do education on it, it’s wonderful.  But there are 1.6 billion people who have no access to electricity in our 21st century.  That’s not acceptable.

If you give energy to the poorest, they will be able to be more productive and there is that sense that age shouldn’t be sort of, kind of, "We’ll look after your needs and not make the poor productive."  Many of us think that we have to have much more emphasis on decent work as part of the whole approach.  Including by the private sector, the companies that are operating, like Coca-Cola or other companies in developing countries, must more and more look at their whole value chain.  How do we create more jobs?  It’s jobs that take people out of poverty.

Recorded September 21, 2010
Interviewed by Victoria Brown