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Interview Transcript
Question: How do you confront death?
Rick Warren: The way you deal with death is the ultimate test of your worldview. The way you deal with death is the ultimate test of your own personal beliefs.
Because what people say they believe, and what they actually believe in a crisis, is two different things.
As a pastor, I have been at the bedside of hundreds of people taking their last breath. I’m very well acquainted with death. I have been at many, many funerals.
And the difference between those who have faith in God, in Christ – have a faith in Christ – the way they handle death and the way people who don’t is night and day.
I have seen the hollowness in the eyes of people without any faith. When they come to this and they have no hope of an everlasting life; they have no hope of heaven; they have no hope that there is more after this.
And I’ve seen those who do have faith in Christ, have faith in God. And yes Christians grieve. But we grieve not for the dying person; we grieve for ourselves. We’re going to miss ‘em. But we do believe that, because of our faith, we’re going to be with them again. And so for us, death is not an ending; it’s a transition. And actually you’re not leaving home in death. You’re going home. As I said, you’re going to spend 60, 80 years here. We’re not made to live here.
Actually I’m kind of glad we don’t live on earth forever ‘cause this is a broken planet. I mean, we’ve got sorrow, and suffering, and sickness, and sin, and dumb choices, and bad bodies and all these kind of things. God did not intend for us to live here.
And this is why even very successful people in their most thoughtful moments, they will say, “There’s got to be more than this. I get up in the morning, go to work, come home, watch TV, go to bed, make a lot of money, retire and die.”
That’s it? No there’s not. Everybody at some point in life goes, “There’s got to be more than this.” Why? Because there is more. There is more. You were made for more than this planet.
The Bible tells us in the book of Ecclesiastes that God has put eternity in the human heart. And that means there is a longing, a desire for immortality. And that longing desire is there because we’re made for it. People try to achieve immortality through writing a book, getting their name on a building, things like that. That’s not it. So death is a transfer for those who have faith. I do believe in heaven and I do believe in hell.
You say, “You believe in hell?” Oh absolutely I believe in hell. Why? Because there’s evil in the world. And if I didn’t believe in hell, God is not just. If Hitler can get away with all that he did and not be punished for it, something’s wrong okay?
And the Bible tells us very clearly that God is a just God. And when you see evil people getting away with murder – literally people murder people and get away with it – there is going to be an accounting one day.
Now that’s the good news, is that the bad people are going to get judged. Or the other bad news is I’m going to get judged, okay? And God doesn’t grade on a curve. Most people think it’s like okay, well if your good works are like this high, and your bad works are this high, God’s going to go, “Aaaaaah, come on in.” No. The fact is, heaven is a perfect place, and only perfect people get to go there, which means I don’t stand a chance. Nobody stands a chance. Because I don’t stand a chance; because I stopped batting 1,000 at like age two.
The only way I’m going to get into heaven is by grace. It is a gift. I can’t earn it. I could never be good enough to earn perfection, and this is what is called the good news.
Recorded on: December 11, 2007
Rick Warren on How to Confront Death
Pastor, Saddleback Church
Why Rick Warren looks forward to dying.
February 4, 2008 | In Life & Death
Discuss
Christopher Hiester on March 23, 2009, 9:33 PM
About a year ago, my Pop-pop went home to be with the Lord after 92 years of living on this earth. He joined his wife, my Grammy, who went home some 13 years earlier. I miss them both very, very much. I did grieve and I still do when I selfishly forget that they are in a better place right now worshiping the God of the heavens and earth. However, I know they are in that better place and that they are no longer suffering. They are in God’s presence now. Knowing this helps me grieve. However, how do we grieve as Christians when someone close to us dies never having put their faith in Christ? Where is our comfort found in knowing they will spend eternity separated from God? This thought drives me to show Christ to my friends who do not know Him, but how would I possibly be able to handle the knowledge that they will spend eternity in separation?
Travis Morien on April 10, 2009, 1:38 AM
Warren’s argument is essentially that it is comforting to think there is life after death, and that this afterlife is altogether more pleasant than mortal life on Earth.
Just because something is comforting unfortunately doesn’t make it true. There are many things I would find comforting, such as a belief I am about to be given a huge financial windfall, or that all my children will win Nobel Prizes.
Sadly, how much we wish something to be true has no effect on how true it actually is. Someone who does not believe in the afterlife will just have to content themselves with making the most of whatever life they have on this Earth, trying to live this life to the fullest.
James C on April 10, 2009, 6:24 AM
Rick knows there’s a hell because there’s evil in the world.
I guess I think there are two human causes for bad things happening, malice and stupidity.
I guess malice=evil, and that’s what hell is for.
What’s the equivalent of hell, for people who were innocently stupid? If there isn’t one, then I’m not sure what’s proven by bad things happening.
Kevin Kelly on April 10, 2009, 11:51 AM
As a psychologist for 40 years I realize that people will attach themselves to beliefs that comfort them but as you said that doesent make them true.
Refreshing to hear such clear logic.
Good for you!
Robert Wadswotth on April 10, 2009, 4:11 PM
I think Rick Warren believes what he believes that he sees what he believes, i.e. those who die without faith have a different countenance from those blessed by belief in God and an afterlife. He rambles on about heaven and hell as if there was empirical evidence to support the fairy tale. i have no problem with those who find comfort in thinking they are going to a better place — we’ll all rot in the ground together.
Mark Slater on April 11, 2009, 7:53 PM
If there is life after death, provided for by a loving and just God, could someone please explain to me why God only judges people after their inconceivably short and ill-informed lives on Earth? Judges them for the rest of eternity? For ever and ever, on the basis of probably significantly less than a century? And without providing any reliable evidence that he wasn’t joking with that stuff in the Bible? When they, with his perfect foreknowledge were condemned to fail by their ancestor Eve’s inability to avoid a sin before she even knew what right and wrong were? The uncertain promise of paradise seems very little to balance against the eternal torment, and neither has anything to do with justice. I’m happy to return to the non-existence that never bothered me for the nearly 14 billion years before I was born.
d t on September 7, 2009, 6:12 AM
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d t on September 7, 2009, 6:28 AM
Reply to Travis: I don’t think that is what Pastor Warren’s ‘argument’ is at all. Simply, he is saying he has noticed a marked difference in how believers and non-believers approach death. But to buttress the straw man you have erected and to clear a common misconception (e.g. the doctor who says he’ll believe in God when those who pray regrow limbs, etc.), you aren’t God and you don’t make the rules. Here’s Travis, on Earth, screaming for someone to empirically show him eternal life, then he’ll believe. Why don’t you find out for yourself (Morrissey)? God says that those who believe will have eternal life. The first step is yours – the first step is belief i.e. Believers choose to believe just like you choose not to (i.e. no one has proven there isn’t eternal life, for believers). Don’t want to take the step because of reason 1, 2, 3, 4, ad infinitum? Then, you’ll never know. God’s not here to prove himself to little Travis.
P.S. Travis has the support of a psychologist – what does the psychologist believe that may or may not be true? Where is the clear logic in that?
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