"Much of the discussion about torture concentrates on the moral and ethical dilemmas involved, but in fact these arguments and make-believe situations are irrelevant if torture doesn't work in the first place. If those who advocate it can't prove that it works, then they have already lost the debate. One of the interesting features of the torture debate is that many in the military and intelligence communities seem decidedly unconvinced about the effectiveness of torture." "I'm not fundamentally opposed to the use of torture, but it has to be justified."