Question: Why did you develop Winamp?
Justin Frankel: Well, when I was in college, I guess that would
have been 1996, or 1997, I found online some places where you could
download music files that were pretty reasonable quality for how big
they were—and this was something I played with before like in high
school and never got really... never got that whole sort of CD quality
sound out of a computer before. But when I found these, it was pretty
interesting, and so I started playing around with it. And one of my
friends in college at the time started making a Mac MP3 player, and on
Windows there were a couple pieces of software available, but they were
kind of limited; they didn’t really a good experience when you were
listening to music with them. It was sort of very functional in that,
"Hey, it’s playing it back," but there was very little of the sort
environment that actually made listening to music on a computer
different from listening to it somewhere else.
So, things like you now, showing visualization, being able to seek
randomly, being able to build play lists. All of this sort of stuff
that’s very commonplace in music-playing software now. So, my friend
started doing a Mac version of this software called MacAmp, and I
haven’t really done much programming for Windows and Windows 95 had been
out and it was starting to be used by a lot of people, so I figured,
"Hey, this would be a good way to learn how to program Windows
application software." And so I made Winamp.
Question: What was it like going from being an unknown coder to a
Justin Frankel: Well it was pretty gradual. There was an IRC
channel that I was hanging out on and had friends on. And these were
people all over the world that would just hang out and talk about random
things. I guess kind of how many online communities are now. But, and
so, you know, I posted early versions and people would play with them
and go, "Hey, this is good. And it should do this, it should do that."
And so this gradual thing of people starting to use it and giving
feedback. And as that happened, you get like, people get excited by it
and they tell their friends and it grows in its own way that way. Which
is very exciting, but it kind of happens over a long period of time, so
as time goes on and each day isn’t really that much bigger than the
previous. So you really don’t notice it that much.
Question: What do you think of iTunes?
iTunes probably started out very similar to Winamp other than some
obvious differences. It was acquired from another company. But I think
since then, it’s probably been... it’s been designed, a.) by people who
actually weren’t the programmers on it. So, you’d have people making
decisions who don't even know how those things are decided you have to
be implemented, which is often a mistake. And then also I think it’s
been very dumbed down, like when working on Winamp, we always tried to
make things straightforward enough so that someone who wasn’t very
technical could use it and not be confused, but also exposed tons of
power so that if someone wanted to just completely customize it to be
exactly their own, and change the behavior to be what they expected,
they could do that. Whereas, iTunes is very much... you fit into the
iTunes mold. That’s just how it works.
Recorded on June 21, 2010
Interviewed by Jessica Liebman