Marion Nestle: Well the food pyramid as it stands today doesn’t even have any food on it. You have to have a computer and go online and then try to sort through everything that’s on the web site in order to figure out what it’s advising. And in that sense it’s . . . it took away the new pyramid which came out in 2005; took away the real value of the old one. The old one had flaws, but one of the thing it did . . . one of the things it did very well, I think, was to indicate that it was better to eat some foods than others. Better for health. And the new pyramid doesn’t make that point nearly as clearly. Nutritionists tell me that they can’t use it; that it’s so difficult to teach from, to explain that they don’t use it. I really don’t know anybody who uses it to teach or for any purpose whatsoever.