Big Think

Christopher Hiester on March 23, 2009, 9:33 PM

About a year ago, my Pop-pop went home to be with the Lord after 92 years of living on this earth. He joined his wife, my Grammy, who went home some 13 years earlier. I miss them both very, very much. I did grieve and I still do when I selfishly forget that they are in a better place right now worshiping the God of the heavens and earth. However, I know they are in that better place and that they are no longer suffering. They are in God’s presence now. Knowing this helps me grieve. However, how do we grieve as Christians when someone close to us dies never having put their faith in Christ? Where is our comfort found in knowing they will spend eternity separated from God? This thought drives me to show Christ to my friends who do not know Him, but how would I possibly be able to handle the knowledge that they will spend eternity in separation?

Travis Morien on April 10, 2009, 1:38 AM

Warren’s argument is essentially that it is comforting to think there is life after death, and that this afterlife is altogether more pleasant than mortal life on Earth.

Just because something is comforting unfortunately doesn’t make it true. There are many things I would find comforting, such as a belief I am about to be given a huge financial windfall, or that all my children will win Nobel Prizes.

Sadly, how much we wish something to be true has no effect on how true it actually is. Someone who does not believe in the afterlife will just have to content themselves with making the most of whatever life they have on this Earth, trying to live this life to the fullest.

James C on April 10, 2009, 6:24 AM

Rick knows there’s a hell because there’s evil in the world.

I guess I think there are two human causes for bad things happening, malice and stupidity.

I guess malice=evil, and that’s what hell is for.

What’s the equivalent of hell, for people who were innocently stupid? If there isn’t one, then I’m not sure what’s proven by bad things happening.

Kevin Kelly on April 10, 2009, 11:51 AM

As a psychologist for 40 years I realize that people will attach themselves to beliefs that comfort them but as you said that doesent make them true.
Refreshing to hear such clear logic.
Good for you!

Robert Wadswotth on April 10, 2009, 4:11 PM

I think Rick Warren believes what he believes that he sees what he believes, i.e. those who die without faith have a different countenance from those blessed by belief in God and an afterlife. He rambles on about heaven and hell as if there was empirical evidence to support the fairy tale. i have no problem with those who find comfort in thinking they are going to a better place — we’ll all rot in the ground together.

Mark Slater on April 11, 2009, 7:53 PM

If there is life after death, provided for by a loving and just God, could someone please explain to me why God only judges people after their inconceivably short and ill-informed lives on Earth? Judges them for the rest of eternity? For ever and ever, on the basis of probably significantly less than a century? And without providing any reliable evidence that he wasn’t joking with that stuff in the Bible? When they, with his perfect foreknowledge were condemned to fail by their ancestor Eve’s inability to avoid a sin before she even knew what right and wrong were? The uncertain promise of paradise seems very little to balance against the eternal torment, and neither has anything to do with justice. I’m happy to return to the non-existence that never bothered me for the nearly 14 billion years before I was born.

d t on September 7, 2009, 6:12 AM

asdf

d t on September 7, 2009, 6:28 AM

Reply to Travis: I don’t think that is what Pastor Warren’s ‘argument’ is at all. Simply, he is saying he has noticed a marked difference in how believers and non-believers approach death. But to buttress the straw man you have erected and to clear a common misconception (e.g. the doctor who says he’ll believe in God when those who pray regrow limbs, etc.), you aren’t God and you don’t make the rules. Here’s Travis, on Earth, screaming for someone to empirically show him eternal life, then he’ll believe. Why don’t you find out for yourself (Morrissey)? God says that those who believe will have eternal life. The first step is yours – the first step is belief i.e. Believers choose to believe just like you choose not to (i.e. no one has proven there isn’t eternal life, for believers). Don’t want to take the step because of reason 1, 2, 3, 4, ad infinitum? Then, you’ll never know. God’s not here to prove himself to little Travis.

P.S. Travis has the support of a psychologist – what does the psychologist believe that may or may not be true? Where is the clear logic in that?