Big Think

dennis ilic on May 30, 2008, 5:48 PM

Andrew who?

Jeff Delano on May 30, 2008, 6:00 PM

What is going on over here?

sciencesaves on May 30, 2008, 6:13 PM

PastorJennifer, Glad you’re back, and thanks for the heads up!

Musycks on May 30, 2008, 10:17 PM

PJ… nice stuff.. I listened to 3 posts of his and nearly died laughing. I think he must have a royalty deal with Big T or something? Maybe they mean well and just want a variety of views, but this guy just seemed like a smug salesman.. with delusions. He actually viewed himself as ahead of his time and thought this is why he attracts critics! Poor Andrew… so misunderstood.
If it wasn’t spirituality he’d be selling dodgy land deals or used cars.
pathetic.

Pastor Jennifer on May 31, 2008, 9:04 AM

dear musycks:

Good to talk to you again!

The chapter in Falk’s book about Cohen is called ‘Sometimes I feel like God.’ He had a God experience like mine, but it turned him into a nut-case! His guru, Poonja renounced him, as did his mother, Luna Tarlo. She became so disgusted with him that she wrote a book exposing his dangerous idiocy called Mother of God. Tarlo saw in her son the terrifying development of ‘an ever growing paranoia and ferocious will to control’

Here are a few of the requirements listed by Falk that Cohen makes of devotees in his community.

Followers doing up to a thousand prostrations in a ten-hour period each day, on the orders of Cohen

The guru instructing his devotees to shave their heads and maintain celibate relations to prove their dedication to his path.
(notice he has quite a full head of hair himself!)

* Disciples willfully destroying $20,000 cars, at Cohen%u2019s instruction and indeed with him present, to demonstrate their non-attachment and sincerity

* Disciples surviving for extended periods on five hours or less of sleep per night, not by choice but by necessity for meeting the community schedule of mandatory activities

* Students on meditation retreats not being allowed to have personal conversations, only being permitted to discuss Cohen%u2019s summary of his teachings in his %u201Cfive fundamentals%u201D

Injuctions by Cohen against his disciples entertaining intellectual pursuits.

Cycles of expulsion and readmission to the community, for devotees who had fallen out of favor with Cohen.

* And, as is the case with every spiritual community, anyone who leaves %u201Cis viewed with scorn and contempt. He hadn%u2019t the courage to face himself%u201D

Cohen himself claims that none of his devotees have ever become enlightened! Small wonder!

He is claimed to have said to a follower:
‘I don%u2019t give a damn about your personal evolution anymore. I just want to be able to use you for my community.’

Nice guy hey?

Luna Tarlo summarizes her opinion of Cohen’s ‘enlightened guruness’ as follows
‘It just seems to me that [Andrew] is as duped by his own propaganda as were all those other brother-gurus in the marketplace who promised deliverance from suffering%u2014from Hitler to David Koresh.’

Tarlo has stated that she will ‘have nothing further to do with the activities which stem from him feeling %u201Clike a god.%u201D’

Buyer beware, this guy is spiritual poison.

Pastor Jennifer on May 31, 2008, 9:06 AM

Hi ss,
keeping up the good work I see!
Peace

sciencesaves on May 31, 2008, 9:51 AM

PJ, Great info, it leads me to think that if there are mentally deficient jerks bold enough to post on this forum, then how many more cults are run by “leaders” with viable intelligence, that can operate beyond the law for years and years before being found out. Thousands, I would think, especially with the general demeanor toward mainstream religion these days. Is this what the BigT refers to as the “rise in fundamentalism”?

How sad.

Tom Huston on May 31, 2008, 12:41 PM

PastorJennifer, I’d suggest you don’t believe everything you read. :) For a very different take, check out the just-published “11 Days at the Edge” by Michael Wombacher, about his experience—wholly positive—as a student of Cohen’s. It might help to counteract your cynicism…

Pastor Jennifer on June 1, 2008, 4:55 AM

Kosmocentric:
Eleven days…? Isn’t that called the fallacy of hasty generalisation? There is just too much evidence from too many people as to the true character of this guy… his mother, of all people, is likely to be painting the truer picture don’t you think, than a starry-eyed initiate?
Cynical …me? no, but I’d be honored to be called a skeptic!
Geofrey Falk’s reputation is in very high standing by the way. His book has been endorsed by Richard Dawkins, Susan Blackmore and John Horgan.

sciencesaves on June 1, 2008, 9:06 AM

PJ, Wow, you’re hot! Great avatar.

RO, Sad statement as to the average level of general intelligence here in the states, unfortunately.

Pastor Jennifer on June 1, 2008, 2:43 PM

Oh ss:
thank you!
:-)

Pastor Jennifer on June 1, 2008, 2:46 PM

Roakes:
Sadly you are right. I can’t wait for Ken Wilber, the Shambhala faithfools, or Mipham Mukpo to show their faces here. Nothing would give me greater pleasure!
Forgive me…
Peace

Denys Artasevych on June 1, 2008, 5:05 PM

What i wonder about is what will these cults look like in 200 years. Christianity wont be with us forever, it wont be long before the christian god becomes the zeus of today. And im doubting that people will turn to atheism en mass. So will one of these crazy cults become the new christianity. It too started as a crazy cult.

My bet would be Scientology, hahahahahahaha.

Musycks on June 1, 2008, 11:30 PM

S44… I’m still waiting for the First Church of Elvis!

PJ.. the fact that this guy has so much space here in one hit has caused a bit of a fuss.. maybe Big T needs to declare it’s hand? their motives may be benign and only in the interests of discussion, but why the ‘mass market’ versions of these guys..
Rick Warren and now this salesman? I guess they have a place in the discussion, but they post and leave… if they ever got directly involved in the dialogue here, they might want a few layers of skin added.

sciencesaves on June 2, 2008, 8:28 AM

The BigT is based on the “left-coast”, so it is entirely possible that this stuff is viewed as relevant, but I wouldn’t rule out some hidden agenda. I’m none too happy about the sidebar ads, but then again, it was only a matter of time…we still love ya, BigT!

If you would like to summon the BigT, just insert a nice forbidden word in the title of your idea, and wait. The “mother” of all dirty words seems to work best.

Pastor Jennifer on June 3, 2008, 6:44 AM

Dear SS and musycks:
I’ve only been visiting bigthink for a couple of weeks, as you know. But I have been wondering about who ‘seeds’ the majority of the topics here. I have the feeling we are just getting our chain yanked! Some of the questions are just too obvious, and the asker seems very disinterested in the ensuing dialog. Sometimes active topics just suddenly drop several levels down in the hierarchy for no obvious reason, perhaps because BT doesn’t like it when a precious topic is debunked or ridiculed too heavily?. There seems to be some editorializing going on for sure!
Maybe the Templeton Foundation is funding the site?
But I am a skeptic!

sciencesaves on June 3, 2008, 9:28 AM

PJ, I think the BigT aims to throw out an unbiased question, at best, then allow the general populace to discuss. The premise of this website is a good and honorable one. In the real world, however, the ability for the operators to continue to provide this service will depend upon how the public accepts or promotes these types of forums, or how it turns a profit.

If I had set this up, I can almost guarantee that the temptation to sell out ethics for profit would be irresistable, especially when the legaleze in the agreement protects me from any legal actions based on the input that it generates.

My contributions to this forum are only worth the knowledge that I gain from reading all the other contributions. That’s why the wisdom of those who do not claim to be “experts” is, in my opinion, untainted by public perception, and a little more credible, in a way.

It’s a good sign, though, that there are several experts who I have a great deal of respect for. To me, that allows tolerance of the occasional snake-oil salesman. Hopefully, there are financial contributors that do not attempt to influence the lean of the opinions.

You are an intelligent and progressive woman, and I respect your viewpoint. I hope there continues to be more and more rational thinking women out there like you and Coyote.

Pastor Jennifer on June 3, 2008, 2:25 PM

Thanks ss:
You have more experience than I so I will defer to your assessment.
Thanks for the reassurance.
Peace

sciencesaves on June 3, 2008, 4:34 PM

PJ, Looks like an onslaught of deluded ones around here lately. Makes me think of the times in history when religion was not seen as an option, but rather as a necessity, and rammed down peoples throats, whether they knew better, or not!

What’s wrong with some of these folks? They seem to be fairly intelligent, but apparently there’s a software problem upstairs.

I hate to think it’s a hardware problem!

Musycks on June 3, 2008, 10:04 PM

software? hardware? nowhere? anywhere?
ss.. keep it real.

I concur, it seems the Xtians are on the way back! man the barricades!

and yes please, more thinking women like PJ and Coyote! us blokes start to smell bad after a while!

Luke Allen on June 8, 2008, 10:09 PM

Thanks for the website PastorJennifer.

Skeptic44 Christians will always be with you brother our Lord is forevermore.

Sciencesaves and Musycks: I am a Christian you don’t have to man the barricades though I reason with the best of atheist and I promise I can put my IQ up with anyone… crazy I thought I was a dumbass to until I was tested. Anyway I look forward to more debate and reason with all of you.

Michael Lyons on June 12, 2008, 9:33 AM

musycks -

I completely understand your anger. But the truth is, he is not going to change. You, however, have the power to change, and while he’s not being hurt by your posts – your well-being is being compromised by this schmuck. So you really want to give him that much power over you? I don’t think so. Believe me, his time will come. If you believe in karma, it won’t be pleasant. So, try to let it go – hard and cliche-like as that sounds – who’s more important? He’s not going to stop or change. But you can and should for your own peace of mind. You’re giving that away, and what’s worse is that you’re giving it away to him. Think about it, anyway. Just don’t want to see more people suffer at his hands. And your anger, disgust, and wishing things were different than they are make you suffer. Don’t allow it. Enough. For your liberation from him, let it go.

Audrey Moore on June 12, 2008, 2:22 PM

Wow !
I’ve just signed up to this site, Big Think. It sounded interesting. A place to view ideas, beliefs, visions for our future. Yet, low and behold I am already finding dialog of judgment and hate. Not very “Big” after all.
Based on the commentary, it begs the question, WHY? Why is there so much time spent on such a site by those who apparently are so opposed to it’s founder and/or it’s concepts?
With so many other places to go and dialog, why choose to spend time here?Or why choose to criticize, when one could simply disagree? Does it not make more sense for those who are as “enlightened” as they appear to be claiming, while touting their judgments, to simply do their own thing somewhere else? Is choice not one of our greatest blessings? Do we really think that by standing in judgment and spewing hate, while touting “our” beliefs, that we are going to SAVE someone?
I’m find it most interesting. I too draw my swords to defend my beliefs. Here I am, now seeing myself in others, and again begging the question. Why? Why is it we continue to “battle” eachother rather than to simply listen and learn or move on? Are we ever going to be able to exchange a difference of beliefs without doing battle? And we wonder why there are still wars and thoughts of war? We refuse to put down our swords.
It seems obvious this site was created as a place for simply the sharing of beliefs and opinions. A place for dialog, new ideas, and the thoughts that follow. Yet it, like so many sites, draws to it those that only want to do “battle”. Can we not offer a difference of opinion or belief without the judgment and hate? Rather than fueling while spending so much of our energy slam-dunking what we don’t like, would it not be wiser to spend our time and energy doing what we do like and allow others to do the same?
How do we heal our wounds if everyone continues to “battle”?

Luke Allen on June 13, 2008, 12:48 AM

Hey PastorJennifer,

I think the time has come to post as much truth to Andrew Cohen as possible. Nothing untruthful but there are those on here that don’t know to read every side of an issue before they spew false doctrine. I have posted on every blog of Mr. Cohen not because of dislike of any one idea but the idea he has sent his people out, not to engage in anything but rather to just simply agree with everything he says.

If you claim this isn’t worth your time, two names, Marshal Silver and David Koresh. Lets try not to be the ones to see it coming and not attempt to warn any newbies.

Smile always, and thanks for strippingthegurus.com site great read!

Pastor Jennifer on June 16, 2008, 2:57 PM

Paradigm:
I want to protect. Some cults destroy: David Koresh, Heaven’s Gate, Jim Jones. I stand up and speak out. I invite you to do the same.
Luke:
I thank you for your support against spiritual fascists!

Matt Pidlysny on December 13, 2008, 6:33 PM

I’m just skipping through here but I’d like to note that this guy sounds pretty good. I guess you aren’t one of the few who actually pass his test, PastorJennifer.

Keep in mind why I would say that.