Big Think

Bryan Cridlebaugh on October 10, 2008, 1:34 AM

Good point.

sciencesaves on October 10, 2008, 8:07 AM

Makes sense. If all you do is pray, then you can blame “gods will”, when the next wave of decline hits, as opposed to actually doing something to protect your savings.

Then again, no one seems to know what to do anyway, so let’s all pray that doing nothing will affect reality…

sciencesaves on October 10, 2008, 9:04 AM

btw, I’m pleased to see that the “idea” postings of the virtual reality kids have been deleted from page one.

Thanks BigT!

dennis ilic on October 10, 2008, 9:55 AM

I really don’t know what to say.

pokój! on October 10, 2008, 12:11 PM

if everyone sends me $5, i’ll put the Blessed Prayer Ribbon of Prosperity and Market Health into a return envelope. All you must do then is rub the ribbon on your privates thrice a day for a week, then julienne it with some cabbage and carrots and make some Prosperity Slaw of Contentment… send me the waste this creates (in the included Airtight Containers of Joy) with a further $50 for each stool, and within days the financial crisis will be over!

Are you taking notes Peter Popoff?

sciencesaves on October 11, 2008, 8:10 AM

pokoj, I’m in! I would prefer to send you my credit card # as payment, because I don’t have the good sense to separate truth from fiction, and I think dog is compelling me to trust that you are doing this for the good of humanity, and not just taking advantage of substandard thinkers.

Good one!

HerbieP on October 12, 2008, 5:20 AM

To be fair the misguided cxlerics of the Anglican church would say that the financial crisis would impact on the worst off in society and that is the principal focus of the prayer. However it does demonstrate how ludicrous the very idea of praying to and omnipotent creator really is who creates both the cancer and the cure.

Bryan Cridlebaugh on October 12, 2008, 6:26 PM

I can’t wait until money and all of the atrocity that comes with it, no longer has such an influence on humanity. I hope that soon, money exists only as a memory and is replaced with equality, sharing and so on.. I hope, but I guess that’s “just another form of praying.”

Bryan Cridlebaugh on October 12, 2008, 7:28 PM

Rich,

I don’t think that’s true. There’s definitely another way. I’m not saying that a collapse now would be good, because we don’t fully understand a good alternative. I hope we understand that alternative soon and replace the current money driven, greed controlled, way of doing things with it. I think it’s equality, sharing, love, caring and so on..

BC

dennis ilic on October 12, 2008, 8:22 PM

Introduce a few robin hoods into the free market equation.

pokój! on October 12, 2008, 11:45 PM

I heard a pastor said something that even atheists should be able to agree with: Money makes a horrible master, but can be a wonderful slave…

Musycks on October 13, 2008, 1:58 AM

yes, and most people get the qoute wrong and say ‘money is the root of all evil’… when it’s ‘love of money’.. there is all the difference.
As nutty as those gentle English Anglicans are, (have a quiet word HP).. the yanks had a prayer vigil for lower petrol prices not long ago I recall…
and there would be just as vacuous prayers being said down under as we speak I’m sure..

Beam me up Scotty…

sciencesaves on October 13, 2008, 9:08 AM

Good points, (and quotes) here!

I’ve never followed the majority of folks around here as far as the pursuit of happiness through monetary gains. I think a lot of folks get frustrated with me when they realize that I’m just not money-motivated, or greedy enough to do their bidding for a price. Materialism seems to place the goal of true happiness further and further away, the longer one chases that carrot.

Perhaps I’m lucky to have the luxury of this perspective. I don’t crave more and more stuff, and I like to share when I can, but I’m not rich, I just prefer a little more equality.

dennis ilic on October 13, 2008, 11:41 AM

ss, that’s nice to hear. And if you don’t mind me saying, very spiritual of you.

Bryan Cridlebaugh on October 13, 2008, 8:49 PM

I enjoyed reading it too.

pokój! on October 14, 2008, 12:18 AM

ro thats the point… people allowing money to rule their lives, as opposed to using it as a tool to lead better lives…

ss: could be chasing the dragon, too :P

sciencesaves on October 14, 2008, 10:51 AM

I slayed my dragon earlier this year!

Thanks.

Pastor Jennifer on October 30, 2008, 2:01 AM

I actually thought it was rather touching that the C of E was attempting to assuage anxiety. It isn’t calling for a supernatural divine intervention into the economic condition of the world, rather it is telling people that they can find joy in non-material values (in the CofE’s case – joy in JC of course). It’s not that much different from the advice a well meaning therapist might pass on. I can’t find fault in that. I for one think, it is about time that our insane consumerism has the brakes put on it. The CofE’s approach to personal finances is a lot healthier than the nutty Word Faith ministries in the US; they say that the covenant God made with his people entitles us to demand prosperity from God and God has to obey. Creflo Dollar has milked the gullible of millions with that magical message.

The innocuous CofE prayer reads as follows:
Lord God, we live in disturbing days:
across the world,
prices rise,
debts increase,
banks collapse,
jobs are taken away,
and fragile security is under threat.
Loving God, meet us in our fear and hear our prayer:
be a tower of strength amidst the shifting sands,
and a light in the darkness;
help us receive your gift of peace,
and fix our hearts where true joys are to be found,
in Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

And in a final word of defense for the Anglican church they promoted the anniversary of Charles Darwin and stood fair and square against any attempts to introduce creationism into the classroom. Give credit where credit is due. If all the fundies in the US were converted to Episcopalianism instead of Sarahpalianism we would be in a heck of a lot better condition.

Musycks on October 30, 2008, 3:23 AM

The Pastor weighs in!! well, are you saying their stupidity is more acceptable than the US fundies? I know they hold lovely tea and scone nights and such… but they are still expecting big daddy to fix the mean old broken world. By all means let’s put a brake on consumerism.. but let’s not expect the foot on the pedal to be celestial!

loved Sarahpalianism by the way…. but I’ll worship as a Michaelpalianist. ;)

and so it goes.

Musycks on October 30, 2008, 7:26 PM

haha… you give them more credit than I can… if I didn’t think most of them believed that prayer was a tool for some divine intervention I might actually agree with you.
Your nuances are far too subtle for the average believer methinks…. and I see the other day some US fundies gathered at the Wall St bull, and prayed for.. god to help fix the markets.
Oh dear.

HerbieP on November 4, 2008, 2:27 AM

I’m afraid that PastorJ is correct musycks as regards the thinking Anglican clergy. Many of them don’t believe in a god as a US fundmentalist would understand it. They certainly don’t believe in an interventionist god.

Most of the congregation have similarly diluted and ill defined faith. Not many mainstream Anglicans in England have a very clear idea of god and for the most part (not including the immigrant population) have no idea that he/she might help them.

Musycks on November 4, 2008, 11:11 PM

I’ll concede a degree or two Herbie… but their prayer askd ‘something’ to fix their hearts and ‘give’ a gift of peace? these are things coming from an entity that decides to intervene based on the worthiness of the recipients I would have thought?
either way… it’s all too silly for me.

HerbieP on November 5, 2008, 5:48 AM

Well no argument from me on Anglicans being silly. It’s a very good work for them, a bit like ‘mostly harmless’.

Musycks on November 6, 2008, 9:39 PM

PJv2… yeah, I get meditation… maybe I need some… I find prayer risible I’m afraid… too easily uncovered as vain, arrogant and toadying all at the same time…
The Pythons did it best (as usual) in Meaning of Life "Oh Lord you are so huge, and all of us down here are pretty impressed I can tell you..etc..‘

or as Peter O’Toole’s character said in The Ruling Class (an early ’70’s Peter Medak film) when asked why he thought he was Jesus? he replied ‘because everytime I prayed I found I was talking to myself’.

I just can’t take it seriously. The fault is mine perhaps.

Musycks on November 7, 2008, 10:45 PM

I hope you can find a copy Jen.. there’s one on the Criterion label, they have a site at criterionco that’s got too many fine films even for a buff like me. It’s one of O’Tooles great turns.. and lovely satire about eccentric upper class types.

and anything that helps self awareness and kindness can’t be a bad thing.