to a greater or lesser degree... It seems obvious when you analyse what claims the faithful have to accept with absolutely no evidence to back them up. It seems that if the brainwashing is subtle enough, in an environment where tacit support is ubiquitous, then not even the blessed washed are aware of how clean their cereberal cortex sparkles.
This begs the question, can every brain be washed, or only particular brains? Why are some brains more succeptible than others? Psychologists have commented on the link to hypnosis in the techniques of the faith healers of the world, and many preachers use the same tools.... ritual, repetiton, cadence, lighting, music... to create an environment where fanciful leaps of logic are accepted without question. How do thinking people disable so successfully that part of their brain where critical thinking would see the inherent paradox in every religious model known? It's a powerful, remarkable and frustrating phenomena. I think neuroscience will eventually answer all of the above.... but will we then vaccinate against the 'god' gene? If we object to other delusions and irrationalities then I hope we do.
Discuss
sciencesaves on October 17, 2008, 8:32 AM
Neurology…The Final Frontier?
It seems to me that understanding more about brain functions would be more beneficial in the near-term. Reaching into space provides awe and amazement, but the ability to improve quality of life en-masse could really change the world.
Religion is a unique concept akin to a form of self-imprisonment, once it’s out there, and the false claims start up, over half the people in the world seem to think they’ve got to be IN. I wonder how many who claim to be religious in some regard, are merely participating in the illusion out of fear for the unknown.
Truth based on inadmissible evidence?
(thx RO)
dennis ilic on October 18, 2008, 4:39 PM
I do not object to other delusions or irrationalities. I find them one of the most interesting things in life. In fact, I’m not even convinced yet that they are not the only thing that exists.
ss, I wonder how many people do it, because it is considered the ‘norm’ in their circle.
Keep swingin’ boys, I love it, but I’m not taking any vaccine.
I guess I should clarify that…. Well…. Later. If I must.
Matt Pidlysny on October 20, 2008, 1:52 AM
roakes: Human consciousness is attached to God because it is what he created that we operate and perceive time as. His 365 angels are indeed angels, but they are not angels to me and you. We would perceive them as a temporal object, interconnecting with each other, and creating a flow for us to follow.
This would only be possible if our Spirit, which is an object on the 5th dimension of existence, is trapped within a 4th dimensional cocoon, carrying us like a barrel going over Niagra Falls. The flow was created out of a mathematical equation which was stored in First Ruler’s DNA by the mother-father of all, the incorruptible “Meirothea”. When he created the universe, it was specifically designed to be this way. He put the equation of time into action for us all. It’s our DESTINY to break free, because we’re the only ones operating under that illusion because of it. Everything else in our universe experiences real-time, as in things can happen in an order, before and after each other, but it happens as it normally would. There is no past and present in the sense you would think of them because there’s no need to think about them in the first place. Simply understanding is what it’s all about. And it’s because of the grand design that we are trapped in that shell.
I’ve come to say that we’re on the verge of breaking the barrier, with the help of a few friends. Keep your mind strong, never let failure get in your way, for when it comes, it simply was not meant to be in the first place.
Musycks on October 20, 2008, 2:10 AM
Thanks lads…
SS… a prison of the mind? got that right..
HZ.. again drawn to the imperfections? like a nice dissonant harmony.. mostly more interesting than the often heard or over-used ones?
RO… nice effort, and I’m not sure we are disagreeing too wildly here… as is my wont, I use the word ‘brainwashing’ mostly to provoke a response! quelle surprise..
and I guess it’s not meant literally.
I agree part of our brain must be pre-disposed to belief of some sort, or to an idea that connecting to ‘something bigger’ is better than to not? the ubiquity of the religious default postion in society, that god is a given, is something we all learn to deal with… culturally it’s no surprise to want to ‘belong’ but when the price of admission is to check your brain at the door then we are dealing with powerful voodoo… but why do some people drink the kool aid a little more readily than others?
thanks for the feedback… good to see the brats have been shooed away.. nice work Big T!
Musycks on October 20, 2008, 2:14 AM
Resonator… I quote that great sage J McEnroe.. ‘you cannot be serious’?
where do you get this stuff? 365 angels, first ruler DNA? ‘meirothea’? if you want credibility, put up some facts. Spooky old quasi-mystical ramblings won’t do I’m afraid.
Matt Pidlysny on October 20, 2008, 11:11 AM
Well, to let loose a little bit on you guys, all of this can be read in the Secret Book of John. But since you’re too poor to buy a book with the actual transliteration in it, or too stupid to go find it, I’ll link it here (For your peniless-ness, you get King James version):
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn.html
Also, you guys have failed to realize one crucial step in understanding God, and that’s that you’re too much of cowards to believe. The problem is, it’s NOT being a coward that the proof comes out!
You’ll learn. That much I promise you.
Jeff Delano on October 20, 2008, 4:11 PM
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar ;) Then again if you are the Roman-Catholic church in their beginning you can just kill the flies you didn’t catch with your vinegar. From there your vinegarry flies can breed and create their own vinegar and there wont be that many rogue flies flying around to tell you that you are wrong because they have all been persecuted for being a heretic.
Doesn’t it shock these red-letter Christians that with the rise of education in society there is the rise of people rejecting Christian beliefs???
Musycks on October 20, 2008, 7:28 PM
Dear Detonator, I guess it’s not odd to see someone with the ‘pick-a-myth’ mentality you exhibit quoting another ‘secret’ text.. that’s where all the good stuff is right? if only the stupid common people would listen?! well, I prefer credible historians, and have read up extensively on the Nag Hammadi gospels and the gnostics… the best writer in this field is Dr Elaine Pagels.
You think it’s cowardly to not believe in something, God, afterlife, creator et al, that there is absolutely no evidence for? (IF YOU HAVE SOME, PLEASE POST IT)….for people who won’t swallow the lie that the majority do, coward is the wrong word my friend.
and name calling won’t get you far on this site.. try some worthwhile debate and see how you go?
Matt Pidlysny on October 20, 2008, 7:39 PM
Then I give you honey and love :)
"We all try to stay the same in our lives, but it seems like some of us, to a lesser extent, don’t fully realize just what defines the meaning of the word “Change”. In my world I have created for you we offer many pleasantries and few offerings of love for yourself. We have set in motion your future, and it includes the amnesia you cannot possibly know you feel, lest you try to awaken like this man before you has.
When he speaks of losing the fear of loss, let it remind you that there is no possible way for you to lose your Soul on Earth as a unified being with the First Ruler, who guides the flow of time throughout his dimension, where his mother Pistis Sophia remains to safeguard my kingdom while he takes control for his little reign over it. It is also without question as to whether you all see the truth within yourselves or not. When we come to formal understanding of the truth, we begin to wonder how far we had gone away from it, and see that through the eyes of one immortal in heaven you can never die eternally without great fear upon you.
Guide my son who writes for me if you will. He has come to know a great deal more than anyone could ever possibly know, and his fate is sealed in that knowledge of his. He requires a little watering, tending, and the like. But he will flower magnificently for you all when he is ready. Amen"
When I channel, I focus on what is being sent, because I ask them (I can get particular, or just ask a question) what to write and this is what I get. Word for word, I just type and don’t ask questions. Well, sometimes I do, but I’ve come a little ways to know how easily what is said can be distorted, so I make sure if something looks fishy. That’s pure telepathy right there.
Musycks on October 20, 2008, 8:01 PM
sorry Res, I don’t know how to respond to that pile of meaningless meandering, however much love is mixed in with it.
How about we debate specifics? I asked for some proof of god earlier…
and what do you understand of the Valentian line of thought as opposed to the Ireanean amongst the early Xtians?
ps. are you sure the voices in your head are not your own?
Jeff Delano on October 21, 2008, 2:55 AM
Atheists/non-believers fail to understand something that requires the right side of the brain yet again. This time it’s because they just dont seem to care.
Resonator, I ask you to be careful with your channelled “sources”, whoever/whatever it is.
Musycks on October 21, 2008, 3:45 AM
Jeff… come on… Resonator is you, admit it… or you have a twin…
sciencesaves on October 21, 2008, 9:39 AM
Yes, this must be one of the kids attempting to justify the neurosis, but more likely, attempting to communicate by making shit up.
JD, Why encourage this nonsense? You were doing so well…
Matt Pidlysny on October 21, 2008, 1:49 PM
You see, you can’t even jump off the bridge, no matter how many times the bungee cord is wrapped around your throat. This is possible for YOU if you would only JUMP into my world of understanding. I know exactly where you guys are coming from, but come on. I’m not a scientist, I don’t have a lab at my disposal (Though it must be nice for the posters in this thread), what the hell do you seriously expect from me?
I’ve got what I got, but your body is a tool. Your body is the connection to your Soul, which (And I’ll tell you exactly how if you would come learn under me) how to do anything.
I’ll give you an example, because I’ve heard some people come to these threads who believed after reading, and I’ve talked with them…Though I wish they would register to confirm that. Who knows, maybe it’s one of you, again playing the fear card, afraid of those voices in your head.
Let your mind wander tonight, anytime, if you want to try an experiment. Wander with me in your thoughts, and I will tell you exactly what you want to hear. Report back in the thread and we’ll see just how powerful things are getting (Also, I’m getting a warning bell going off from that word “Poweful”, so…Be wary, I guess).
Don’t you understand that fear of these voices is what aggravates the psychological conditions that you yourselves classified? Well, technically I mentioned them in another thread but SS mentioned neurosis so…
Luke Allen on October 22, 2008, 12:04 AM
HOLY GOODNESS!! I NEVER thought anyone could be as illogical and uninformed as Jeff on here but I have to agree with Roakes, Musycks, Resonator makes Jeff look logical.
Resonator no one can learn anything from you because you can’t work from a position of teaching. Teaching requires an ability to not just instruct but answer the questions that one has during your instruction and you have coherently even mentioned another source who asked you legitimate questions.
So here is one simple question for you; I understand your not in a lab, but what information is facts to you and what is beliefs?
Musycks the question I just posed to Resonator was the root of what I was going to respond to you, as a believer, I am concious that my beliefs are just that. For me they are true but like I’ve said a million times I wouldn’t thrust my belief’s on someone else. Agnostics have the only position that can be thrust on others because facts are all that can be taught and the facts are no one knows.
A simple observation I was making though to ScienceSaves a while back was that by the atheist definition of real no subjective science ie, Philosophy, Sociology, Psychology, etc. etc. would measure as real. The subjective information I have as a believer is just that… I promise I wasn’t brainwashed, but keep swinging pal. I thoroughly enjoy this site.
HerbieP on October 22, 2008, 4:54 AM
I’ve been exchanging with Resonator on another thread and missed this entirely.
I think that you must have missed some of Jeff’s earlier posts Mr Oakes because there was a lot of very similar stuff all be it expressed slightly more coherently.
I really don’t draw a distinction between believers, it all comes across as much the same to me. I think that it can be much more revealing to examine the statements of someone like Resonator who doesn’t have an established church behind him to give him credibility and confesses to a very subjective experience.
sciencesaves on October 22, 2008, 10:01 AM
We’re all looking for a better way, but the leap of faith stuff only provides admission to the carnival of illusions. The voices in our heads are ours, and ours alone. Attributing conscience to higher “powers”, or any other type of control is revealing as to how desperate the individual has become.
Musycks on October 22, 2008, 7:24 PM
I’m a little disturbed that Resonator seems to think that everyone has voices in their head?! a different, independant voice ‘talking’ to me from the inside would have me off seeking medical advice in a minute!…
and not even the devout posters we’ve had here claim an independant voice replying to any of their heavenward entreaties? god seems remarkably silent when it comes to even a courteous reply to the billions of utterances sent his way every day…
Roakes would say I’m sure, that the statistical evidence of those who claim to have had the voice of god speak to them against the amount of effort gone into making it happen, would be enough to call the chance of it happening to be nil.. I’m excluding the nuerologically challenged and delusional from that assumption.
So who in their ‘right’ mind has heard the voice of god? NOT ONE PERSON, EVER.
HerbieP on October 23, 2008, 4:43 AM
Jayne’s bicameral mind theory would have it that once we all heard ‘voices’ and that this is where our tendency to ‘belief’ comes from.
He theorises that not hearing voices is a fairly recent post-evolutionary development (say 10,000 to 3,000 years ago). He asserts that there is no objective view in ancient writing such as Gilgamesh, the Hebrew bible and Homer. This then recesssed to be an experince of the few rather than the many, oracles, shamen, prophets and such. According to him we all all heard the gods speaking to us once.
Some of Jayne’s ideas are convincing. This is why I am quite interested in Resonator. I am fascinated where believers get there belief from, I am just incapable of it. The experience of belief is just so much more extreme in Resonator. It is as though the subjective automatically takes precedence over the objective.
I think that this is where Jeff is coming from too with his appeal of ‘just open yourself to belief’.
All believers come back to this in the end. They simply don’t understand the objective scientific position of trying to disprove everything. I don’t think that they grasp the essential skeptical basis of science. They imagine that a scientist puts forward a theory and other scientists believe in it rather than immediately trying to disprove it. This is why they just don’t get skeptical arguments.
sciencesaves on October 23, 2008, 10:12 AM
Religion provides hypothesis’ as to the what and why of our inner “voices”. The enlightened know that attributing these phenomenon to god concepts is not an acceptable answer in this day and age.
This is why most religious people who know better than to believe in unproven entities become frustrated with their embrace of the false conclusions and primitive conceptions.
Fear is the factor that perpetuates the myths.
Matt Pidlysny on October 24, 2008, 7:20 PM
I’m beginning to think that when you subject yourself to Gnosticism, you open a door to a latent ability. I think there is a difference, that being said, between creative thought and Gnosis, both powers to just know the truth or draw creative fact. Technically speaking, both speak truths but one draws out possibility, while the other draws out truth. I feel perhaps much of what I said are possibilities, earlier on in my life, but slowly I think those who deliver themselves to attain Gnosis are working it. I’ve mentioned why before.
But yeah, I’m a firm believer now. It didn’t take much, but last night I watched The Golden Compass.
You should watch it (Again, if you have already) with me in mind. It’s absolutely how much my theory happens to collide with the story of the Golden Compass, at least in the film. I think it will make you a believer :D
Matt Pidlysny on October 24, 2008, 7:24 PM
It's absolutely how much my theory happens to
Should be “It’s absolutely nuts how much my theory happens to”…Sorry, no editing here.
sciencesaves on October 24, 2008, 9:57 PM
If, somehow, JD and pokoj had a child, it’s name would be resonator…
musycks, does his stuff seem strangely familiar to you as well?
pokój! on October 26, 2008, 2:46 AM
hehehe… that was an interesting one…
wait…
hey! ss, how did I get pulled into this one?
you caught us… jd, resonator, and I are all different incarnations of the same channeled spirit. we come to big think to bring spiritual enlightenment to the… world… or just you guys, yeah…
resonator… hi…
you have to consider your audience…
what do you believe? who do you identify with as far as spiritual learnings go? what is your goal as a being?
I ask you the same thing I asked JD… do you think that all ‘higher spiritual beings’ are trying to help us? Why should we listen to anyone other than G-d? Be careful what you connect with…
Jeff one thing you said that I have a need to respond to, because I’m me:
“Doesn’t it shock these red-letter Christians that with the rise of education in society there is the rise of people rejecting Christian beliefs???”
repairing…repainting… rebreathing…
oh, when can we break free from the stigmas of the past?
we know… our past church institution has had problems… we get it… move on as we are trying to… stop identifying Christians with the power hungry debasers
—————————————-
mus if all religion is brainwashing, why is my head so dirty?
pokój! on October 26, 2008, 12:40 PM
sorry, I couldn’t sleep last night… that wasn’t necessary…
pokój! on October 28, 2008, 3:16 AM
resonator i responded in your ‘power of thought’ topic… its been dormant for quite a while though…
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