Michael Kline
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Michael Kline commented on Where are we? on January 16, 2008, 11:55 PM
In response to John and Mr. NoBrainer, To the contrary, it seems to me that Dr. Pinker's words are more honest and logically consistent than your own positions. Steve (NoBrianer), your statement about "genuine advancements in culture" simply takes for granted the Western model of Enlightenment, Progress, and linear history. The crux of the issue is escaping you (or you are attempting to do the converse): different cultures may have drastically disparate barometers for "advancement" and "progress" that may never be resolved. Most westerners would agree, for instance, that polygamy, childhood marriage, 'female circumcision', and punishment in the form of mutilation (amputation for stealing, etc., as still occurs in Saudi Arabia) should be discouraged. This is a cultural judgment that goes to the heart of our beliefs about gender, women's rights, and social justice. Your ideological judgments remain, whether you seek to rectify these injustices with force or finesse. They cannot simply be whitewashed by a "live and let live" attitude, and they do not address the dividing-line between humanitarianism and cultural imperialism; i.e., when are we justified in interfering in the internal affairs of another country or culture? When does ethnic discord become ethnic cleansing? When does a famine become a 'humanitarian crisis'? When do we become responsible for containing disorder or imposing our own order in another country? To use an easy example from British history: Was the Raj justified in eliminating sati (immolation of widows) during its tenure in the subcontinent? Many Hindus claimed that the practice was deeply enshrined in their culture, and that the British should not interfere; yet today we would all agree that such an atrocity is morally unacceptable. These are difficult questions that I cannot answer. At least Pinker is acknowledging that they exist.
Michael Kline commented on Where are we? on January 17, 2008, 4:55 AM
In response to John and Mr. NoBrainer, To the contrary, it seems to me that Dr. Pinker's words are more honest and logically consistent than your own positions. Steve (NoBrianer), your statement about "genuine advancements in culture" simply takes for granted the Western model of Enlightenment, Progress, and linear history. The crux of the issue is escaping you (or you are attempting to do the converse): different cultures may have drastically disparate barometers for "advancement" and "progress" that may never be resolved. Most westerners would agree, for instance, that polygamy, childhood marriage, 'female circumcision', and punishment in the form of mutilation (amputation for stealing, etc., as still occurs in Saudi Arabia) should be discouraged. This is a cultural judgment that goes to the heart of our beliefs about gender, women's rights, and social justice. Your ideological judgments remain, whether you seek to rectify these injustices with force or finesse. They cannot simply be whitewashed by a "live and let live" attitude, and they do not address the dividing-line between humanitarianism and cultural imperialism; i.e., when are we justified in interfering in the internal affairs of another country or culture? When does ethnic discord become ethnic cleansing? When does a famine become a 'humanitarian crisis'? When do we become responsible for containing disorder or imposing our own order in another country? To use an easy example from British history: Was the Raj justified in eliminating sati (immolation of widows) during its tenure in the subcontinent? Many Hindus claimed that the practice was deeply enshrined in their culture, and that the British should not interfere; yet today we would all agree that such an atrocity is morally unacceptable.These are difficult questions that I cannot answer. At least Pinker is acknowledging that they exist.