For a long while I have wondered where the far-left goes to get their fill-up of false anti-American and anti-Israel propaganda. And look: today I found some in Mr. Chomsky's sad little video.
I understand that Chomsky has a reputation as an intellectual, but if his reasoning is based upon manufactured false facts then his opinions are as equally worthless as those his sycophants publish in blogs daily.
First false fact:
Chomsky: 'The Palestinians are (a nation).. the nation is being destroyed. Its a rare event in history for a nation to face destruction, but it's happening.'
There is no nation of Palestine. Never was. A territory, a province, a name to identify an area, but never a state. In fact the purpose of current talks are to create such a state. In fact Chomsky himself promotes such a two-state solution, or the creation of a NEW STATE called Palestine, or Hamasistan, whatever its people choose.
The Palestinian peoples are former citizens of Egypt and Trans Jordan; territory that was ceded to Israel by those nations while suing for peace. While not perfectly accurate, this statement is a much more accurate view of history than Chomsky's pipe-dreams of a nation-state of Palestine being slowing devoured by big bad Israel.
Second false fact:
Chomsky: 'The United States and Israel, are internationally isolated in their refusal to accept a diplomatic settlement. In accord with what has been an overwhelming international consensus, some kind of two-state settlement with some modification of borders, and they still are rejecting it.'
Was it the United States and Israel that walked away from the table and choose the path of INTIFADA instead of negotiation? No. Of course what Chomsky wants when he says 'diplomatic settlement,' is a settlement that is forced upon Israel by those who are NOT her friends.
Chomsky adds nothing to the debate and needs to do some basic research before he comments further. Try:
The Library of Congress:
A Country Study: Israel
http://memory.loc.gov/frd/cs/iltoc.html#il0023
Everything from Historical Setting, Events in Palestine 1908-48, Problems of the New State 1948-67 , Minority Groups, and The Peace Process.
Discuss
Simon-Pierre Lauzon on March 28, 2008, 11:50 AM
I salute your efforts to show some flaws in his argument. However, you cannot reject his whole position(left-ist) based on his opinion on one matter. Even if you disprove all his propositions, that would not disprove the whole anti-american movement’s arguments out there.
But keep going, I have never learned anything from the man who agreed with me
Mike Green on April 2, 2008, 2:01 AM
Have you ever heard of the 1967 borders; did Israel agree then? now? What a weak position you have. Death rate is like 300 to 1, perhaps you need to research a little further.
Steve Lowe on April 2, 2008, 10:53 AM
The concept of a nation is more than just a geographic region with set borders and a government. Nationalism comes from a sense of a shared culture, language, history, etc. and by those measures, the Palestinians are as much a “nation” as any other group.
Mary Coyote on April 3, 2008, 3:06 AM
steplow: so New Orleans is a nation?
The American Native? Wales? Indeed Northern Ireland and Kurdistan. Quebec? The Bronx? Manhattan, for sure! California! How about the American unelectable far-left? Now there is a ‘group with a shared culture, language, history, etc’ that deserves their own nationality.
Rather than FUDGE definitions, it would be far easier to admit that the Palestinians are not YET a nation, and that the far-left does us disservice and feeds antisemitism with false facts.
Mary Coyote on April 3, 2008, 3:09 AM
MeditativeFan: do you mean before or after June 1967? Do you have an argument to make or are you just emo-venting
Mary Coyote on May 8, 2008, 2:07 PM
Jdrockerfeller: No. There is nothing to read between the lines. Just a stating of fact: THERE IS NO STATE OF PALESTINE
The purpose and intent in current PEACE TALKS is to resolve acts of war and to CREATE SUCH A STATE.
The British Mandate was partitioned; the state of Israel was created and the surrounding Arab states made WAR that same day. TransJordon OCCUPIED the territory where a state of Palestine could have grown. The territory was lost in the 1967 war. Jordon ceded all interests to Israel in exchange for peace. The abortive state of Palestine never was.
Get it?
Harvey Cotton on June 3, 2008, 4:02 PM
People who are against Israel’s policies in the Occupied Territories, and by extension U.S. support of those policies, do not Chomsky as a source of propaganda. We merely consult the historical record.
In regard to your original post where you assail Chomsky, remember two points. First of all, there is a difference between a “nation” and a “State.”
Secondly, just because you are at a negotiating table, that does not mean that you are negotiating in good faith. It is entirely possible to maintain a rejectionist stance while still going through the motions of a formal negotiation. The conditions offered to the Palestinian side were not only impossible for them to accept, they were intentionally impossible.
JohnQ Citizen on June 9, 2008, 9:22 PM
Noam Chomsky speaks quite clearly on this issue. There are a few problems with your analysis, of course I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and not stoop to cheap insults, you’re probably young, and very reactionary, as I once was.
You don’t understand the definition of the word nation. Go to dictionary.com and look at the very first entry there:
>>a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own.
The American Heritage dictionary offers the following definition:
>>A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language; a nationality.
This is easily distinguished from a state. So there is no logic to you first claim of a false fact. You mistakingly equate “nation” and “state”. Just as there is a Cherokee Nation, an Iroquois Nation, etc., these people do not have formal states.
Regarding your second false fact claim – Chomsky is obviously referring to the international consensus on a two-state settlement. It is voted on every year in the UN General Assembly, the first week of every December. It’s been voted on for about the past 30 years, and the US and Israel are virtually alone in opposing it. For many years the vote was something like 150-2, the 2 obviously being the US and Israel. In recent years, more nations have been admitted to the UN, and sometimes the US and Israel are joined by Tuvalu, Nauru, Micronesia and Palau…. real geopolitical powerhouses. Lately the vote has been something like 160-6. Please don’t take my word for this, look it up for yourself. The resolution is titled “Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine” and you can search for it at the UN website.
Matthew Wood on August 23, 2008, 3:22 PM
Wow…considering Chomsky to be the well spring of liberal pseudo-intellectualism. The Irony of that seeing the comments stem from commentary on Buckley, whose lone retort to Noam was to threaten to breck his god damn neck. Saying Noam is a gadfly is like calling “The Prince” a novel approach to describing political heirarchy.
Joao Silva on May 18, 2009, 7:49 AM
Hi!! Sory for the writting, i don´t write english very well
Check the facts… United States and Israel are the only two countries that have never signed the “Peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine”. The first votin was 164-7 – The only countries that didn´t signed it where the U.S, Israel, Republ. of Dominica, Micronesia and Australia and 2 more. That´s why Chomsky says they have been blocking it.
¿Is the rest of the world wrong? ¿Or are these 7 countries?
Palestina was a british colony, and half of it was given to to the jewish population after the holocaust – i believe we all agree on that. But why? The palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust. If we wanted to be fair, perhaps we should have given them land from Europe, or even from the United States (let´s not forget the American companyes and banks that have benefited from that war working directly with Hitler´s government, providing them with the tecnology and funds/loans to carry on with that barbarie).
You say that “The Palestinian people are former citizens of Egypt and Trans Jordan”. ¿And where are all the United States citizens from?The only real Americans are the Indians who have been mostly killed by the “United States Citizens”
wiki info: “In its broader meaning as a geographical term, Palestine can refer to an area that includes contemporary ”Israel" href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel”>Israel and the Palestinian territories, parts of Jordan, and parts of Lebanon and Syria.In its narrow meaning, it can refer to either the area within the boundaries of the former British Mandate of Palestine (1920-1948) west of the Jordan River, or to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, claimed as the territory of the partially recognized State of Palestine."
Joao Silva on May 18, 2009, 7:49 AM
Hi!! Sory for the writting, i don´t write english very well
Check the facts… United States and Israel are the only two countries that have never signed the “Peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine”. The first votin was 164-7 – The only countries that didn´t signed it where the U.S, Israel, Republ. of Dominica, Micronesia and Australia and 2 more. That´s why Chomsky says they have been blocking it.
¿Is the rest of the world wrong? ¿Or are these 7 countries?
Palestina was a british colony, and half of it was given to to the jewish population after the holocaust – i believe we all agree on that. But why? The palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust. If we wanted to be fair, perhaps we should have given them land from Europe, or even from the United States (let´s not forget the American companyes and banks that have benefited from that war working directly with Hitler´s government, providing them with the tecnology and funds/loans to carry on with that barbarie).
You say that “The Palestinian people are former citizens of Egypt and Trans Jordan”. ¿And where are all the United States citizens from?The only real Americans are the Indians who have been mostly killed by the “United States Citizens”
wiki info: “In its broader meaning as a geographical term, Palestine can refer to an area that includes contemporary ”Israel" href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel”>Israel and the Palestinian territories, parts of Jordan, and parts of Lebanon and Syria.In its narrow meaning, it can refer to either the area within the boundaries of the former British Mandate of Palestine (1920-1948) west of the Jordan River, or to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, claimed as the territory of the partially recognized State of Palestine."
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