Lawrence Freedman: Well, I think- first, I think, you know, when one looks back, of all the presidencies I
looked at, it seemed to me this was the most coherent foreign policy team- they were sort of working together- they were more or less like-minded in what they were trying to achieve. It was probably the pinnacle of American prestige, and the reason, after the defeat of Iraq in the first Gulf War, after they’d occupied Kuwait and the United States pushed them out. There are a lot of flaws of the elder Bush Administration, but that achievement in itself, whatever one thinks now about not getting rid of Saddam Hussein at the time, when they had the chance, at the time, this was considered to be responsible and restrained and very statesman-like on Bush’s part. And it left him with enormous prestige. Now, I think he saw that this was the time to try to move forward the Arab/Israeli conflict, and with James Baker- they took a pretty tough line with Shamir, who had been Prime Minister, who was also Likudnik like Begin, but actually more hard-line in some ways even than Begin, and an extraordinarily- very stubborn man. And I think they out-maneuvered him to the point where he lost an election and Yitzhak Rabin came in. And I think the poignancy for the Bush Administration- that Bush Administration- was that they just got themselves to the point where they were able to build on some foreign policy achievements. When the election came and Bush removing James Baker from being Secretary of State, when he was really- made himself, you know, quite a considerable figure to run his campaign.
Remember, that momentum was lost and then of course Bush, being defeated, meant it was lost altogether. But I think you can see in ’91, ’92, real American political muscle in the region and the framework being set, the taking issues forward, into the coming- also, we should note the great advantage of the Soviet Union with just evaporating and withdrawing from the scene, so that the old bulwark of the radicals, which was support from Moscow, was suddenly nowhere to be found, and they felt incredibly vulnerable as a result of that.
Brett Dobbs: How do you think he handled the Intifada?
Question: How do you view George H.W. Bush’s handling of the Intifada?
I think- I mean, the Intifada was a moment of truth for Israeli politics in that they suddenly realized that they couldn’t- instead of having Arafat- who was sort of an old-style Nasserite radical, secular- people had remembered him, you know, with a gun in one hand, always walking around in battle fatigues and so on. And the terrorism of the Eighties- all of these associations of the Palestinians in the Eighties- I mean, pretty negative- they were associated with terrorism, with uncompromising attitudes towards Israel, as unyielding, and if the Israelis look tough in response, it was, well, you know, the Palestinians asked for it. Then all of a sudden you have, from within the territories, kids throwing stones, having demonstrations, and the Israelis really beating down on them, and causing enormous tensions within Israeli society itself.
The Israelis were having real doubts as to where they were going, or what they were doing, and could they sustain that, and so on. So, I think the first test was for Israel itself, and I think it was out of that- so someone like Rabin is a very good example- realized that they couldn’t go on like that. I think an American Administration- as was often the case, I think, with Bush- well, it started under Reagan- picked it up. I mean, they saw what was going on. But then of course the effects were to some extent countered because the Palestinians handled the Gulf War itself so badly- Arafat supported Saddam- became almost a sort of courtier of Saddam- based himself in Baghdad- and that lost the Palestinians not only ground with the Americans, but with the rest of the Arab world. And then you have the extraordinary exodus of Jews from the collapsing Soviet Union, which reinforced Israel on its demographics. So I think the effects of the Intifada were probably recognized more within Israel and had a shift in Israeli opinion, perhaps more than they did for the Americans, who got moved on and distracted to other things.
Recorded on 5/19/08
Discuss
JOE BARUM on January 8, 2009, 4:05 PM
The USA is supporting the killers and naming the victims "terrorsits " just becasue they cried loudly asking for justice in this unjust world where justice is the right of the strong , but the weak and the downtrodden have no rights to defend themselves or else they will become terrosrists.
Gaza of today is very much like Dresden-1945. And as Dresden was annihilated by the RAF toward the end of the Second World War, the 1.5 million inhabitants of Gaza are being decapitated and thoroughly terrorized by the Israeli army, the Wehrmacht of our time.
Breaking News : Such and such a number of palestinian children and women are killed in Gaza. It has become the daily menu of the press as if the victims are just numbers or even insects and above all they blame the victims for not running away from their houses to seek a shelter in a UNRWA school and when they do so, Israel kills them and gives the usual lie that there were hamas activists in or next to the school despite that fact that the red cross said that there were no hamas activists in or even near the school. oh my God! what happned to the world? Just watch CNN to see how it is siding with the killers by not showing the horrifying pictures of the dead people in Gaza, but when an Israeli civilian is killed or even wounded, they go on reporting this incidents for many days as if the Israelis are supposed to live unlike the people in Gaza whose death means a new number on the news. Who banned the media from entering into Gaza? It was Israel. Why? To hide the truth. But the whole world is watching and yet, nobody blames Israel for the systematic killing. Where is your humanity dear Americans when you support the killer and sypathise with him and blame the victims for defending themselves and crying aloud," We had better die fighting the occupation than to die of starvation". It seems that you forgot that the whole thing started because Israel’s blockade made the stuation in Gaza just like death and they had no way but to cry and tell Israel and the world to stop this inhuman blockade. Thousands of children died during the almost 4years of blockade and israel killed 6 hamas activists days before the end ot the truce, but the whole world accuses Hamas.
The virtual holocaust Israel is now waging against the Gaza Strip is taking its toll on innocent civilians. Today 8-1-2009 the total number is ( 650 killed and more than 4000 wounded and hundreds are still under the rubble of their demolished house.) The shocking scenes speak for themselves. The gruesomeness transcends reality; it exceeds by far the most eloquent of words.
Yes, Gaza now is very much like Dresden-1945. And as Dresden was annihilated by the RAF toward the end of the Second World War, the 1.5 million inhabitants of Gaza are being decapitated and thoroughly terrorized by the Israeli army, the Wehrmacht of our time.
But there is obviously a fundamental and conspicuous difference between Gaza and Dresden. Dresden was targeted by the allies as an act of sheer vengeance and revenge for what the Nazi war machine had done, including German attacks on London and other British cities.
But Gaza committed no crime against Israel. To be sure, the opposite is quite true. Have we forgotten that the bulk of the Gaza victims, who are being annihilated with the Zionist war machine, happen to be refugees and their children and grandchildren uprooted from their towns and villages across the borders inside Israel?
In 1948, Israel uprooted them in wave after wave of genocidal ethnic cleansing, and ever since has been trying to liquidate them by bombing their homes, killing their children, bulldozing their farms and lately by trying to starve them to death.
And now, the six-decade reign of terror and death is being culminated with an aerial holocaust, all for the purpose of displaying %u201CJewish power%u201D and %u201Cheroism.%u201D!!! Well, what heroism is there in having the state-of-the-art of the American machine of death rain missiles and bombs, including Bunker Busters, on unprotected apartment buildings, mosques, streets, pharmacies, college dormitories? This is not heroism; it is a sheer act of cowardice.
The Nazis ganged up on defenseless people more than six decades ago, but they at least didn%u2019t claim to be carrying out heroic acts as self-absorbed and gleeful Israeli leaders are doing now.
In truth, Gaza is being crucified because it refuses to succumb to the cruelty and supremacy of the %u201Choly tribe,%u201D because it refuses to die quietly and continues to cling to life and look forth for a better tomorrow, because Gaza is saying %u201Cgive me freedom or give me death.%u201D
The Nazis of our time want Gaza to die quietly, or at least as quietly as possible. Israeli behavior leaves no doubt as to the diabolical designs of the Judeo-Nazi entity.
But the Israeli military and political establishments don%u2019t want to appear before the world as they really are, as Nazis par excellence who think, behave and act like the Nazis. This is why they are trying to cover up their crimes with a frantic campaign of fabricated lies.
But Nazis are Nazis even if they have Jewish names and pretend to be the victims. In the final analysis it doesn%u2019t matter if Nazis call themselves %u201Cchosenites%u201D or %u201Cmaster race%u201D or %u201Cubermenschen,%u201D or even %u201Cvictims.%u201D
Sowing hatred
Israel is not only wreaking death, terror and havoc on defenseless Gazans. It is also sowing hatred, a lot of hatred, in the hearts and minds of millions of people who are watching Israel decapitate Gaza.
This is undoubtedly going to be one of the lasting aftereffects of this madness.
The gruesome and phantasmagoric images which hundreds of millions of Arabs and Muslims and others around the world are watching on their TV screens around the clock are a sure prescription for decades of hatred and sullen enmity toward Jews throughout the Muslim world.
Arab and Muslim children won%u2019t have to read about Israeli Nazism in their textbooks. They are watching it live on their TV screens.
Let it be clear to all and sundry. Israel is telling an entire generation of Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims that they either surrender to the Jewish Third Reich or become %u201Cterrorists.%u201D
They will become %u201Cterrorists%u201D and be it as it may.
Surely, the pornographic slaughter will eventually boomerang on Israel and regretfully on Jews. Unfortunately, many innocent Jews will pay the price just as mostly innocent Palestinians are paying the price, with their lives and the lives of their children and beloved ones, for the brutal ugliness of the Zionist mindset. In the final analysis, anti-Semitism is manufactured in Israel, not in Damascus or Cairo or even Gaza.
Hamas
Israel says its aim is to destroy Hamas. Well, there is no doubt that Israel possesses the military ability to destroy the Hamas government. Israel, after all, is a military superpower which also happens to be more or less in control of the politics and policies of the United States and to a lesser extent the governments of Europe.
However, destroying Hamas’ government is one thing, and destroying Hamas the movement, is quite another.
Hamas has hundreds of thousands of supporters in occupied Palestine as well as tens of millions of sympathizers across the Arab and Muslim world. These will not disappear even if the Gaza government does.
The ongoing huge demonstrations in solidarity with Hamas, now flooding the Arab world, shows that Hamas is more, much more, than a local nationalist-Islamic movement that can be eradicated by Israeli firepower.
Yes, Hamas has obviously been hit hard. But the movement is by no means about to die or even get weaker. In fact, there are many indications that Hamas will get stronger, at least in terms of popularity and stature.
The American puppet regimes in the Arab world may not like Hamas. Some of them may even be gloating over the Gaza calamity.
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