Question: Is there a clash of civilizations?
Warren: A clash of civilizations? I . . . You know I think when you boil all of the struggles that we face around the world – not just in the Middle East, not just in Africa, not in the United States – when you just look at the human condition; when you really look at us as human beings, it goes back to that kingdom of me. I don’t believe we’re basically good. I know that some people believe . . . There are a lot of people who believe we’re basically good with the capacity for evil. But I actually believe the opposite is true. I believe that we are each of us born with that kingdom of me reigning very strongly in our lives; looking out for number one; looking out for ourselves. And because we are self-centered, self-absorbed creatures, I think that we are basically born with an evil bent with the capacity for good when we are in relationship with God. I think being in a relationship with God is really the only way to deal . . . kind of deal this death blow to that part of me that only wants what’s good for me. So I think what’s happening in the Middle East without dealing with all the complexities of that, which I’m certainly not qualified to deal with, is to just say at the heart of it is at the heart of every conflict that’s ever happened between any groups of people ever – individuals or on a country level – is that somewhere in the bottom of it is the interest of self. And when the interest of self is there that’s greater than the interest of others, wars ensue. Conflicts happen. It’s inevitable. It is what will happen.
Recorded on: 12/11/07
Discuss
Omar Sapayeen on January 18, 2008, 10:18 AM
On the relationship with God thing..I kinda disagree. For the most part people pursue religiosity for very personal reasons. It could be the desire to go to heaven after death, or it could simply be the desire to convince oneself that there is more to one than just this living creature that will inevitably die.
I agree that we're more evil than good. We act out our desires to take 100 times before we act out any desire to give. But I do believe that we're more capable of thinking of the collective than the creatures that evolved into us.
And some people are truly good, in every sense. Check out the vegans on this site who give up meat because they empathize with animals. Conscientiously acting against one's built-in instincts to consume meat, in the name of an ideal. Some of us have adopted the ideals of pacifism out of a refusal to harm other humans, and some of us have also accepted harsher lives to avoid negative impacts even on animals. People who dedicate their lives to conservation and protecting species. There are people who are given to absolute good…
And they give me reason to believe we can evolve to becoming something special…Regardless of whether they seek comfort or meaning in God or religion.
Omar Sapayeen on January 18, 2008, 3:18 PM
On the relationship with God thing..I kinda disagree. For the most part people pursue religiosity for very personal reasons. It could be the desire to go to heaven after death, or it could simply be the desire to convince oneself that there is more to one than just this living creature that will inevitably die.
I agree that we’re more evil than good. We act out our desires to take 100 times before we act out any desire to give. But I do believe that we’re more capable of thinking of the collective than the creatures that evolved into us.
And some people are truly good, in every sense. Check out the vegans on this site who give up meat because they empathize with animals. Conscientiously acting against one’s built-in instincts to consume meat, in the name of an ideal. Some of us have adopted the ideals of pacifism out of a refusal to harm other humans, and some of us have also accepted harsher lives to avoid negative impacts even on animals. People who dedicate their lives to conservation and protecting species. There are people who are given to absolute good…
And they give me reason to believe we can evolve to becoming something special…Regardless of whether they seek comfort or meaning in God or religion.
d. t. cochrane on January 21, 2008, 7:15 AM
I couldn't disagree more. I think it is dangerous to try to imagine what we are in isolation from our society because we are immediately born into our society. Our means of expressing either good or evil depend the capacities we've acquired within that social context. Hume said that the social problem is not that we are individualistic but that our sympathies are partial. Therefore the solution needed is not one that constrains and limits our egos, but which extends that partiality. I do not think a relationship with God or a god is the necessary precondition for that. Many avowed atheists have been good people. Many who claim to not only have a relationship with God, but to speak for God, have done incredible ills. Of course, those who share Kay Warren's beliefs will claim that they do not really have a relationship with God. But then the argument becomes a mere tautology with no evidence apart from their proclamations based on the founding assumption.
d. t. cochrane on January 21, 2008, 12:15 PM
I couldn’t disagree more. I think it is dangerous to try to imagine what we are in isolation from our society because we are immediately born into our society. Our means of expressing either good or evil depend the capacities we’ve acquired within that social context. Hume said that the social problem is not that we are individualistic but that our sympathies are partial. Therefore the solution needed is not one that constrains and limits our egos, but which extends that partiality. I do not think a relationship with God or a god is the necessary precondition for that. Many avowed atheists have been good people. Many who claim to not only have a relationship with God, but to speak for God, have done incredible ills. Of course, those who share Kay Warren’s beliefs will claim that they do not really have a relationship with God. But then the argument becomes a mere tautology with no evidence apart from their proclamations based on the founding assumption.
Steve Rey on March 16, 2008, 3:22 PM
Wow, well I'm glad she's speaking for herself. So we're born evil and bad. thats such a positive way to look at things. :)
Steve Rey on March 16, 2008, 7:22 PM
Wow, well I’m glad she’s speaking for herself. So we’re born evil and bad. thats such a positive way to look at things. :)
Musycks on April 16, 2008, 9:35 PM
surely Big Think is being provocative in holding this person up as an expert?
helping people with AIDS is commendable… washing that help down with the fizz of Xtianity not so… her philosophy condemns those people to eternal damnation for the activities that got them there?
Guess it's all about 'saving souls' then?
for who and from what?
the only line in that statement of her's that rang true.. 'I'm not qualified'..
pathetic.
Musycks on April 17, 2008, 1:35 AM
surely Big Think is being provocative in holding this person up as an expert?
helping people with AIDS is commendable… washing that help down with the fizz of Xtianity not so… her philosophy condemns those people to eternal damnation for the activities that got them there?
Guess it’s all about ‘saving souls’ then?
for who and from what?
the only line in that statement of her’s that rang true.. ’I’m not qualified’..
pathetic.
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