Big Think

Craig Murray on January 18, 2008, 1:23 AM

Evolution is as much fact as gravity. Newton discovered gravity, but Einstien proved him only half-correct. Same is true with evolution. We only know part of the story, but it’s a true story. We come from monkeys, which come from lizards, which come from frogs, which come from fish. That’s fact, as much as the law of gravity or the law of general relativity are facts.

What I dont understand is why people who “believe in God and the bible” cant also accept evolution. Why cant evolution be the “how”? God’s will is still the why. The bible is still trying to help us understand the why.

There is no reason the law of evolution, the law of gravity, and the bible cant all co-exist.

Brent Charriere on January 18, 2008, 1:28 AM

I think that if you’re going to claim facts you should site your sources to maintain the integrity of the discussion.

Jason Mancer on January 18, 2008, 1:36 AM

ok craig you say that boldly but you fail to give even one Exspale of how evolution is fact so can you give me one and i know evolution is not like gravaty thats over the line plz give me an EX

Jason Mancer on January 18, 2008, 1:37 AM

pluse you miss the point should this be taught in public schools

Daniel Ricker on January 18, 2008, 1:43 AM

As someone who went to public school, and only recently left it, I’m pretty sure I knew that evolution was a theory. I learned the difference between theory and fact in around third grade. The scientific method lessons helped with that. So I don’t think it is being taught as a fact. Certainly the controversy surrounding evolution being taught in schools helps kids keep that in mind.

Also keep in mind that freedom of religion negates your idea that most parents are trying to raise their kids in God. Whose God?

Thirdly, almost all that we teach once you get to advanced levels is a theory. Germ theory is a theory. I don’t see anyone arguing that AP Physics shouldn’t teach relativity in public schools, and that theory is almost a half-century more recent than evolution.

I’m pretty sure the controversy surrounding evolution is really only an indication of the threat science can be to religion, especially in modern times. Evolution is just a good target for the religious to tackle that which is counter to their beliefs. That doesn’t take away from the merit of religion at all.

Matt W on January 18, 2008, 1:55 AM

I’m gonna take a stab and say thatguy think creationism is much better fit to be taught in public schools.

a a on January 18, 2008, 2:22 AM

Evolution is still a THEORY, unless there has been a very recent change in Biology. There is a push to have the THEORY of Intelligent Design alongside the Theory of Evolution as an alternate possibility. Unfortunately for them, it was found that their THEORY was based on Creation not science making it Theology not a Biological theory.

Enigma on January 18, 2008, 2:46 AM

Donny:

Evolution is a theory, but Intelligent Design is not for the same reason that Gravity is a theory, but Intelligent Shoving (i.e. “Invisible intelligent agents… dontcallthemangelsorweloseourfunding.. push stuff around”) is not.

Evolution, like gravity, makes coherent and testable predictions about the world and what evidence we will discover. If evidence shows up that counters those predictions, then the theories in question will be in part or in whole discarded or revised. That is why it is a theory.

Intelligent design makes no such predictions and only vacuous claims. That is why it is not a theory, nor even a hypothesis, despite what the guys who are spending the Discovery Institute’s Marketing..sorry…“Research” budget would like you to believe.

a a on January 18, 2008, 2:56 AM

Enigma – as I said in my previous comment, the Theory of Intelligent design failed miserably. FYI, it’s the LAW of Gravity not the THEORY of Gravity.

Faceless Atheist on January 18, 2008, 3:53 AM

Evolution should be taught in public schools because it is the leading scientific theory concerning the rise of human beings on earth. Any faith based creationism is not scientific, and should not be taught in schools because religion and state need to be separated, and teaching a creation myth of any religion, without giving due time to other major creation myths, violates that separation. If we teach Genesis to school children it should be taught alongside the ancient Greek creation myth and the Mayan Creation myth, and it should be stressed that all of these are stories with no scientific basis.
Evolution is a theory. It is the leading scientific theory explaining why humans exist on this earth. Relativity is also a theory. It explains our current understanding of gravity, magnetism, and the space-time continuum. It is the latest theory concerning physics , it replaced Newtonian gravity which replaced another theory that existed before it. Each new theory arose when the previous one failed to explain the results of scientific experiments. People used to believe that the orbits of planets were perfect circles. When this was proved false we did not throw out the idea of the heliocentric solar system, but updated our understanding of gravity to explain why planets moved in ellipses, with the sun at one of the focus points. Evolution is a theory in the same way. Though it may encounter slight adjustments along the way, it will never be disproven. It should be taught in schools because it is backed up by factual evidence, something the creation myths lack, and it is not religiously biased, and therefore does not violate the separation of church and state that this country was founded upon.
The Church has always been against teaching scientific theories in schools. The idea of the heliocentric solar system was fought for centuries by the church, who deemed it incompatible with their beliefs. Galileo was imprisoned in his own home for advocating such a %u201Ctheory%u201D and backing it up with empirical, scientific data. The Church rallies against new ideas in order to stifle those that contradict what they teach. Evolution is only the most recent example.

Derek Pritchard on January 18, 2008, 4:24 AM

Evolution is fact. God is faith. Big difference. Faith is the mere copable way for dealing with reality.

Andrew Schwartz on January 18, 2008, 7:50 AM

http://www.notjustatheory.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity

Science is always theory. Theories attempt to explain observations. Observations are facts. We have observed evolution ( http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html ) making its occurrence a fact. We also have a Theory of Evolution, which attempts to explain the process by which this happens on a large scale, to the extent that we get the diversity of life seen on Earth today. It is from this theory that we are convinced that we share common ancestors with apes.

Sum up: evolution is a fact. The Theory of Evolution is a theory. The Theory of Gravity, and Theory of Relativity, are theories. They should be taught, as they reflect our best current scientific understanding on a subject.

Gerald Sears on January 18, 2008, 8:14 AM

I would like to point out that while your examples of things that are proven wrong are correct in that they individually have been proven wrong, none of them disprove evolution and current evolutionary theory does recognize them as wrong and does not teach them as correct. What is taught in grade schools is often out of date when it comes to science as there is only so much funding for new books.

However. While there are so-called missing links for humans. Scientists have thousands of examples of other species where a clear and stable progression in evolving traits can be seen in the fossil record.

While you may have heard that there is a great debate about evolution, in those who have really looked at the evidence the debate is over. Unless the fossil record has been completely hoaxed (a feat I’d say would be only accomplishable by a god) then evolution is more or less fact.

Now there is one thing you might be confused on. While the basic idea of evolution is fact. Exactly how evolution takes place and how it occurs is under debate and study.

Many in the anti-evolution camp are miss-informed, too lazy to do the research on their own, or outright liars.

Gerald Sears on January 18, 2008, 8:19 AM

Oh I would like to point out another thing.

There is a difference in the meaning of the word “theory” when it is used in a strict scientific context and when it is used every day.

In standard parlance theory means something that is unsure.

In strict scientific context theory means that something is proven through repeated scientific experimentation and does not have any connotations on how certain or uncertain something is.

Yes evolution is scientific theory.

No evolution is not at all uncertain in the scientific community.

Kyle Rybski on January 19, 2008, 11:00 AM

Evolution is explained in public schools exactly as it is: the best available explanation.

Creationism is not taught because it is not a scientific theory, it is a religious assertion and mythological notion.

You need to understand how science works. Whenever a well-established theory is challenged with another theory, it is subjected to the scientific method. Evolution has reached the high regard it has today because it has passed through this process very well, and it works. Creationism hasn’t, and doesn’t.

Cody POWPOW on January 22, 2008, 2:26 AM

Dont mean to rip anyone off….this is from poster AMMODRAMUS and he did a great job!!!though i added some mod’s to thier work. I do think Evo should be taught…It is well grounded and heavily supported (by real evidence). This is a responce to Thatguy who tried to offer some areas were he felt Evo theory was false – and he should re-check his facts.


Lucy is one of many specimens of Australopithecus afarensis. That species is likely an ancestor to the genus Homo, and it represents one of those “missing links” that is not actually missing.

Human embryos do have pharyngeal gill pouches. These structures are not gills, but they are directly homologous to the pharyngeal gill pouches found in every other vertebrate embryo (in many species those structures do develop into gills. Modern biology does recognize numerous connections between ontogeny and phylogeny, and explains them using evolutionary theory

There is very compelling evidence for evolution of terrestrial mammals to whales. whales do have tiny remnant leg bones lie buried deep in their bodies. During embryonal development, leg extremities first occur, then recede,they are vestigial. Similarly, whale embryos have hair at one stage (like all mammalian embryos), but lose most of it later.

Carbon dating is a very reliable dating method for items less than about 60,000 years old and can be used for things much older with wiggle room of say 10,000 once your over the million mark.

Marc Parsneau on February 24, 2008, 6:34 PM

Yes, evolution should be taught in schools as a fact. It is a fact. You have not cited any evidence at all for creationism; in fact, there is so evidence for it that hasn’t been completely debunked and undermined. There is no other alternative to evolution as an explanation as to how such an abundant variety of life appeared on earth.

The thing really is, in the words of Stephen Jay Gould,‘Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world’s data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts do not go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them.’ —-and for the record, I seriously doubt that SJG would have considered creationism a rival theory for evolution.

Tim Prather on March 13, 2008, 8:13 PM

Recently I read the book “Monkey Girl” by Edward Humes. It was one of the most interesting documentaries I’ve ever read. It related the legal war between Evolutionists and I.D. (intelligent design). During the case Kitzmiller V. Dover Board of Education the leading proponent for I.D. Michael Behe admitted as a witness that one of the most important research projects to the theory of I.D. had not even been attempted. If you look at both Evolution and Intelligent Design impartially you will find evolution has much more evidence on its side while I.D. makes alot of noise and hypotheses but does zero of the work required to be a credible scientific theory. As such it is highly appropriate and necessary for evolution to be taught in biology. It is one of the fundamental parts of the field of modern biology.