Big Think

Denys Artasevych on October 12, 2009, 3:13 AM

Well i would say that our constant desire for things is more or less inevitable due to the nature of satisfaction. Satisfaction by definition is a fleetin emotion, if it was otherwise, if we were ever trully satisfied we would cease to act upon anything. We alway have goals sadlly this is inevitablle.

Is this a good thing, well it makes us achieve it makes us act, it makes us build these cars and buildings, weather its good i can not say.

I dont think this has anything to do as you said with us experiencing the hunger of our fellow man, evolutionarily speaking we are made to compete with one another, this is one of the reasons the capitalist system at its core is so efficient because it harvests this need to be better, to have more. If you succeed and others fail your offspring and your genes survive, we may not think this way consciously but subconsciously survival of the fittest is always there. The guy that goes out and gets these things must feel this instinct in a stronger fashion then one that is more content with what he has, but its there in all of us.

Now on the other side we are also social animals and historically our ancestors needed to stick together in groups to survive, this is why we feel for our closer fellows, when you see someone close to you starving you want to help. But millions of people dying in Africa is a number because they are not of the immediate pack of humans that surround us. As Stalin said a single persons death is a tragedy, the death of millions, a statistic. We onlly care about what we are emotionally invested in.

Now going off your moral imperative to help our fellow man i have one question. Are you truly prepared to give up all but the very bare necessities and give it all away to those who need it more. Because if what you say is true then even keeping that necklace or that weeding ring that may hold lots of significance could also save 10 or 20 people from starving, so to truly live up to the standard you proposed you would have to give up everything but food and water.

tim hall on October 12, 2009, 11:30 PM

Great subject,
Capitalism’s chief propaganda is that individual drive to get ahead is happiness. It is a fascist lie. Over consumption is a fools life that has been taken in by edu’s false individualism brainwashing and media hype.

The truth is, without these two interventions, satisfying human emotion is much greater than consumption. No, you do not give up your wedding ring or even your white picket fence. You still plan 3 ski trips per year around your family vacation.

Over consumption is when you are heating empty space to prove to yourself your own success. (Your own psychological creation.)When you purchase the latest trends to look successful or to hold your perceived social status. Andrew Carnegie quotes say it best.

Where folks miss out on life is buying into the capitalist hype of individualism buying happiness.(over gadgetry) They could achieve more accumulated happiness over a lifespan by feeding their emotions and helping others. But hype is addictive, so they lose the most satisfying part of their life.

There is moderation in everything. It is called being true to yourself. You have to research those truths also. This means trying out new things that are not on T.V. Things you don’t see others in your financial class doing. You first have to get involved emotionally with giving and then weigh it’s worth against a consumer good. You have to allow yourself to feel the pleasure instead of just going through the motions to say you did something good. You have to step outside of the brainwashed capitalist individual to enjoy life to it’s fullest.

I was running three small businesses, creating wealth and consuming goods. I was happy. I was successful. I was lying to myself. I took a right turn. I started helping others with my time and my accumulated assets. Now I am overwhelmed by pleasure. I still work, I still consume Now I take great pleasure in watching a stranger drive away in a fine sports car. I don’t feel the need to possess it. It is beautiful the way it is.

You only live once. You can either follow hype or seek out the fullest.

Denys Artasevych on October 13, 2009, 9:55 PM

Hey tim, i would say there is nothing wrong with consuming per se. What i think traps you in the capitalist trap as you might call it is the preocupation with the ability to consume, and future security. Will i be making enough money by the time im 30, will i be able to buy that house, will i be able to retire? This is the trap.

I like many of my compatriots in the old country am incredibly unconcerned with spending money, i have it i spend it i don’t have anymore, so what. The concept of saving never occurs to people like me an my family. When i buy a pack of cigarretes i leve the change, and the clerc constantlly goes its 80 cents are you sure. But to me the hassle of dealing with the coins in not worth the 80 cents. When i get a haircut i leve a 4 – 5 dollar tip, not because im rich but because, why not? I may have no money i may have extra, it dosent matter.

I think this is a social behavior remnant of the old communist regime, back then you owned nothing yourself, and your money can be reclaimed any time by the government, so spend while you can?

Not only does such an attitude stimulate the economy, but it relives worry anxiety about the future and everything in between. Does spending make one happier, no not in and off itself, but not worrying about ones finances sure does.

tim hall on October 14, 2009, 1:37 AM

Denys,  So your saying that you’re not locked into social classism? If you choose to spend rather than save for a home, you don’t feel that your family and friends think of you as less successful? I don’t personally see the advantage of owning a home other than our real-estate system is set up to make it the safest lifetime investment for child’s collage fund or for spending money after you no-longer can work. I can’t grasp the reasoning for not saving and then being stuck at home after retiring. In the U.S. we live with very little socialism therefore, if we are not looking out for our future, we fall through some cracks. We get denied what the next higher class gets to do and the big thing is to be able to right off more taxable income. Keep more of what you make. Then there is the qualifying for group health-care insurance. If you fall into that crack and have a expensive health problem, the state takes away all your possessions and puts you in a poorly managed dormitory with poor care.

But my greater point is that we are brainwashed to act as individuals and gaurd our income and time as ours, only to spend it on ourselves and our family. If one is quite successful, at some point, he has enough worldly possessions. Owning a house with rooms that you never use is a waste of earnings. Why not give it away? Would that not be more emotionly pleasurable than an empty room? Allowing for a more satisfying life?

There seems to be a social force that says you have to purchase the new ipod even though your old one works fine for you. On the other hand if the new ipod had some functions that I could really use, I would possess it. If not, I might spend those earnings on a new mattress for a person who could not afford one. It is stepping out of that “individualist, work hard to possess the popular” mind set and letting loose to enjoy life to the fullest. (no matter your income level)

The funniest thing that I see in consunerism is the big screen T.V. They put these huge gaudy frames in their little family rooms and stare at them as if they were gods. Working in visual communications myself, I can’t figure out what their looking at. It is all the same imaging, just bigger. Your brain only needs a large enough image to compute at x distance. Bigger images do not become more real. It is all psychological. I am not saying to try an watch the game on your ipod. Poeple are really silly and wastefull with their time and earnings. I have a 20" monitor and a $4,000.00 computor. If I were not in graphic arts, I would not purchase such costly equiptment just to pronouce my success to myself or others. But I was educated to do just that.

Denys Artasevych on October 14, 2009, 10:59 AM

Denys Artasevych on October 14, 2009, 11:19 AM

Well time about owning a home i dont see much point in it, Ive lived my whole life in apartments and moved to many times to count. Being stuck in a home and paying a mortgage until you are 60 dosent seem like you are owning much really, maby it is a decent way to make a profit but only if the market goes your way. I prefer renting its easy to move, you are not stuck with trying to sell the damn place.

Worrying about retirement makes no sense to me not just because im young, it seems to be  again more of a cultural thing, i don’t care how much money i have to travel when im 65, when you are that old who really cares, i would prefer to be dead in the ground by the time im 70 rather then have my body and more importantly mind disintegrate to the point where im hardly a person any longer. I do have health insurance but simply because there’s no other way to get  health care, dont even get me started on the absurdity of the insurance system. Yet another institution based on paranoia about the future and one that does nothing other then suck money out of the economy. But if i can no longer afford insurance and i get a dissease, well tough luck hopefully society will reword me for the stimulus i provide to the economy by giving me government health care, if not well so it must be.

As far as giving money away sure if i had the cash i would throw it around freely to anyone i thought might need it.

I dont care much for big screen tvs, and i have no idea what brand my clothing is i just wear what fits and looks good.

And i prefer to spend my limited money supply on things to do rather then mounds of shit i can keep in my house and forget about. Weather it be drinking with my friends, going to the theater (theater tickets are damn expensive in the us), going out to eat or getting stoned, all good allocation of cash in my opinion.

I also dont believe in spending in credit, well unless one absolutely must. I only buy things i have cash for i dont even have a credit card if i need money i go to the bank and withdraw it. I even bought my car in cash (well rather i have my mom half the money to buy herself a new car and took hers, but nonetheless she bought it in cash.

I think this is a good attitude towards life, it relieves stress and anxiety, and its a simple philosophy of enjoy life while you can and the future will get here, none knows what it will bring anyway, if i get hit by a car tomorrow what the hell would be the point of my savings.

Denys Artasevych on October 14, 2009, 11:27 AM

Oh and about being locked in social classism well everyone is, its not a personal decision its the byproduct of a capitalist system other people will always consider class. The best you can do is simply not care what class you and others fit into, which i like to think i do.

tim hall on October 14, 2009, 1:47 PM

Denys, Having already lived a large portion of my life and examining what I might have changed if that same spread of time were to be applied to now and what my coming future might hold, I find most of your reasoning liable in creating a highly satisfiable life span. However, I don’t understand why you completly distroy satisfaction after age of 65.

Just as being T-boned in an intersection by a drugged up Escalade at two in the morning after a night of throwing darts, I find that I have a great chance of having less gray matter than my father at age 70 because of revolutionary views of health adjustments. I am still here and by chance have dodged a lot of bullets. I see other humans today at age 80 still enjoying life to it’s fullest relative to what their bodies can still do.

You may go far with your understanding of credit. I have possessed a credit card from the first allowable day. However, I have never paid an interest payment on a card. This is a huge life savings. Two years ago it afforded me to purchase a new 36 mpg Honda for cash, beating the the oil brokers and banks at the same time. When folks use credit to purchase product on sale, then pay more interest than they saved, all they have accomplished is to possess an over-priced product for an earlier use. But, if you can use an early purchase in creating income by use of interest payment, you can correctly advance your finacial future and have more assets to spend for your original hours of labour.  For instance, I take out a $300,000 line of credit for a building project. I use my $180,000 in cash on hand to start the very first slower portion of the project. As the project advances, I borrow 40,000 then 100,000 then 200,000, until I reach my $300,000 credit limit. My monthly interest payment increases upon every new draw. At the end of the project, I am paying $2000.oo per month until the project is sold. Upon sale my line of credit $300,000 is paid off and I keep the dfference. Total sale is $800,000 with total expenditures of interest and assets of $200,000 over six months. My projected porofit was 15% of projected sale. If I earn at least 10% $80,000, I have still done well. These gains produce market volatility. So you have to estimate when the market is overvalued and safely shut down all projects one year in advance or your product goes into a loss selling at only $600,000.

At your young age, my hopes is that you fully understand the Capitalist society. It says that how you choose to use your earnings deligates how much your earnings really are compared to my earnings. It says that I earned $15 per hour but after just 10 years it was really $20 per hour. You earned $20 per hour but after just 10 years you earned $8.00 per hour. That is how drastic it really is. It says that if you do not become a small business owner with all of our tax reductions then we will continue to lower your pay to ajusted inflation and raise ours. If you do not like it, we will find a more hungry individual to replace you no matter your great skill. If the capitalist society takes a turn towards more socialism, we both tend to become more like you. With national health-care your fanal wage projects to $12. I decide I have less old age medical loss and lower my work/stress load to a projected $18 or semi retire at $15.

I hope that you understand that in the most capitalist country in the world, if you spend all of your earnings, we are purposely creating hundreds of cracks for you to fall through so we can steal your earnings.

Denys Artasevych on October 14, 2009, 7:19 PM

Well if im of able body and sound mind at 80 maybe i could get enjoyment out of life, but that is something you cant count on. As such i see no reason to spending your youth trying to ensure a surplus of of money at that point.

Am exactly in agreement with you on the nature of credit, paying interest on something is what i consider truly throwing money to the wind, leaving one in an endless cycle of borrow, repay with interest, due to loss borrow more. And of course if you are borrowing money to directly inject into your career or business, as a way to make money well that is not only acceptable but wise, after all 300 really isn’t something you can pull out of your ass for most people but if its going to a larger goal that’s just fine.

Alright im a bit confused on what you said about pay reduction. You say it drops because of taxes and adjusted pay, could you elaborate i mean most people get raises not reductions at work. So are you saying that we see on average more inflation then pay raises, or that the tax code somehow skrews you. Please elaborate.

I am a proponent of a Norwegian or danish style socialist system, not that they cant be improved on, but the strong social safety net makes for a happier, less stressed populous.

Oh and i would not call the US the most capitalist nation in the world, government health care, lo income housing, public education and numerous other institutions are already a nod towards a socialist omen market mixed system, just not as much socialism as i would like to see.

Interestingly enough since the fall of the USSR in Ukrainian we saw an almost complete 360 in our economic system, now we have a complete open market Darwinist capitalism that was seen in the US in the 1920 , and all the social support structures that were once the focal point of the society have all but dissipated, leaving an every man for himself kind of society, with a national identity remnant of the communist era, it is rather unique and rather frightening situation.

Denys Artasevych on October 14, 2009, 7:20 PM

That was suppose to be 300,000 in the second paragraph

tim hall on October 15, 2009, 12:27 AM

Denys, It goes down like this: A typical employee pays 26% earned income tax. The small business owner pays 26% but with average right offs on office supplies, parcel room home office, vehical right down, cloths, dining, travel, etc. brings earned income tax down to 18%.  The auditor is running files on a computer program looking for red flags. If you do not put up a flag, your not worth his percentage of recovered taxes. So a good accountant will do what he can without popping up flags. As you gain assets, it is wise to start another little business with more new breaks. Then the larger or more business your operating, the more loop holes you’re aloud. It comes down to the accountant weighing fines and interest verses gain from cheating. I never got that big. Then we can start getting into purchasing fleet vehicles for your full time secretary wife who does the books once a month. Or the little trick of keeping your truck in your personal name and paying yourself from your sub chapt S corp for use of vehicle. You avoid paying higher corporate auto insurance.

Yes, under trickle down economics or Reaganomics (origin Hoovernomics) you loose wages vs. inflation. Then under unfair trade agreements if you purchase more cheap product (Wally World) it looks like your raise in pay is really working. But as soon as you step outside of the big-box store and purchase a Maytag or Sony with a decent half-life, you realize what that pay-raise reaped in purchasing power. So much so, that there is very little difference in a $40,000 annual income than a $60,000. The difference in the two jobs is skilled worker apposed arshole manager. You don’t get out of the big-box store and limited spending vacations until you can exceed $60,000.

From what little I have read about Ukrain, it sounds like total corruption. It would seem that it would matter who you know more than what you know.

On the social classism thing, I am the same. I don’t see myself involved only I choose to live in an area below my income because the folks are more real.