If you subscribe to the idea that God has bestowed free will upon us all and, simultaneously, maintain that he is omniscient to the degree that he is already aware of our decisions before we make them, then you are kidding yourself.
If you are at a crossroads and are wondering which direction to take, you can go east, west, north, or south, but God already knows you’re going east, can you make any other decision, but to go in that predetermined direction?
If you could, then God isn’t omniscient, but if you cannot, then you do not posses free will.
If there is a God, and this God does, in fact, have prior knowledge of our entire lives, then is it so radical of an idea to think we exist solely to carry out his intention? His will? Can it be taken further to say that we are an extension of his will? That God is akin to a 6 billon legged centipede like insect, with all of us, his many legs, scurrying about on a predestined course to get God where he needs to go? Are we all God?
Or is it just more likely that religion is hogwash?
Discuss
Kevin Waltz on January 21, 2008, 5:05 PM
Just because God knows a ahead dos not mean he caused it. Let’s say there is a perfect meteorologist who always predicts the weather with 100% accuracy she knows the future, but that does not mean she causes it.
pokój! on January 21, 2008, 5:09 PM
My idea of God being “all-knowing” is that He exists outside of the time-space continuum, He does not experience time as we know it, because He is present in all dimensions of reality.
Randall Menser on January 21, 2008, 5:33 PM
to waltz- God isnt said to predict the outcome. he knows with 100 percent certainty. he is infallible and cannot be wrong. He doesnt sit at his computer looking at satellite images and gathering evidence to make an assesment. He just knows.
to pokoj- you should read the philosophy of Parmenides, a presocratic Ionian naturalist. He says, “what really is cannot have come to be, for there is nothing outside of reality.” Essentially, he states that you cannot get something from nothing and what is has always been. Basically God cannot have created a reality and been outside of that reality for he must be part of the reality and have always been a part of it. Keep in mind that I am doing a shitty job of breaking it down and that you should look into it for yourself.
Faceless Atheist on January 21, 2008, 5:55 PM
Isn%u2019t the main idea of free will, when viewed within religious constraints, that even God doesn%u2019t know what we are going to do? Can god be all knowing if he doesn%u2019t know the future, and is restricted to knowing only everything that ever happened up to and including the present moment. If he knew what people would do, why doesn%u2019t he stop those who commit horrible atrocities, is he unable, unwilling? Isn%u2019t it more likely that any religion that believes in an all knowing, all powerful, beneficent god more likely hogwash, since the realities of the world we live, including the fact that humans possess free will, inevitably make one of the three false. These arguments will not apply to the god of Spinoza or Einstein, which seems to be what pokoj was talking about.
pokój! on January 21, 2008, 6:02 PM
Randall, I’ll look into that, also, this discussion reminds me of the Oyarsa in C.S. Lewis’ space trilogy, described as transient beings that inhabit each planet and are a part of the great being that inhabits all existence… if you haven’t read it you should check it out, probably my favorite books, from my favorite intellectual christian writer…
Randall Menser on January 21, 2008, 6:03 PM
ok… sounds interesting.
a a on January 22, 2008, 1:19 AM
God, being omnipresent can see you approaching the intersection, at the intersection and after you have proceeded in your chosen direction all at the same time. Hence knowing your decision without affecting your free will.
pokój! on January 22, 2008, 1:28 AM
so mac… God would then exist outside of time? I believe this and I think you do too… but what does that mean?
a a on January 22, 2008, 2:25 AM
pokoj – fate vs free will? How it affects my own personal decision making? This is the first time I’ve put this much thought into it. But I heard something once which might have been a glimpse. The way this person described it was that throughout our life we make all these decisions, some right, some wrong and some neutral. At some point when we “arrive”, we are transformed in a way that all our wrong decisions are corrected as if the wrong decision was never made, while still retaining the memory of the experience. Keep in mind that this is a flawed illustration since it is like one ant conveying to another ant how to build an intergalactic space ship.
Josh Friedman on January 22, 2008, 10:36 AM
I will say again, that if god exists outside of our reality and does not affect our lives, then why even bother arguing his existence? Why not just live as if he did not exist?
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody hears, does it make a sound? The answer is – who cares if it matters to no one? I’m certainly not going to waste my time on such silly and pointless questions.
a a on January 22, 2008, 1:15 PM
God is omnipresent, existing everywhere all the time simultaneous. More properly stated, God is not CONSTRAINED by time and space, moving in and out of our time and space as desired. I can only move forward through time at a set rate from a particular moment. I can only exist in one place at any given moment.
Add a Comment
You must be logged in to comment. Log in or Register