Big Think

sciencesaves on June 24, 2008, 9:24 AM

The sun provides heat, light, energy, etc., etc., and we can actually SEE the sun, unlike some other entities…

dennis ilic on June 24, 2008, 11:14 AM

ss, maybe there is a word you could use that would change some of your feelings.

Instead of saying WORSHIP the sun for all those traits you mentioned trying substituting the word HONOUR.

Honour does not have that blind faith attachment to it. When you honour, you can respect and appreciate the things that are provided without having to join a cult.

ps. George Carlin also did a great job of making fun of baseball when he compared it to football.

pps. I do honour the sun along with the water, and the plants, and so on….

ppps. I also honour your intellectual input on Big T.

dennis ilic on June 24, 2008, 11:15 AM

pppps. I try to honour those things as much as possible.

sciencesaves on June 24, 2008, 11:34 AM

hz, Good substitution of words. I used the word worship because Carlin did. Honor is a lot better term, thanks!

ps, your queens english is showing! (ou) Perhaps I should say, MY interpretaion of the queens english shows! That would be the “American” spellings.

pss, you seem concerned for my outlook, but I assure you, I can understand how you honor, see, and appreciate these things, I do too, we’re lucky to live in a world full of wonders. No god required.

Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate your input as well, friend.

HerbieP on June 24, 2008, 12:32 PM

I don’t think that honour or worship are appropriate becaus ethe sun is not a personality and doesn’t care. This is precsiely why it is an illuminating example. A thing so powerful whether it ha sawareness or not just doesn’t care about us or even notice us. However I can see how honouring the Earth has a point. We can affect the earth, we can turn it into a desert or a paradise, we can pollute the atmosphere and fill it with radioactive poison. We can end all life on Earth and bring about climbate change. Honouring the Earth can have meaning because, even with a non-sentient Earth, there is an interaction. With the sun there is no interaction, it acts upon us and we have no effect on it. Much the same relationship as we would have with an effectively omnipotent god. This is the essence of the problem that I have with your all encompasing spirtuality HZ. To the universe we are insignificant.

sciencesaves on June 24, 2008, 12:53 PM

Honor the Earth…good one, HP, thanks.

Luke Allen on June 24, 2008, 1:15 PM

George Carlin is the second famous person who died in my life that really hurt me. I will miss his witty intellectual humor. Even if it made fun of most of my belief’s I guess I feel like the old patriot Patrick Henry: “I may not agree with what you are saying but I will die for you to have the right to say it.” Rest In Peace Mr. Carlin; the world is better because you lived!

dennis ilic on June 24, 2008, 1:40 PM

HP, that is a excellent distinction. Sun versus Earth. Interaction, cause and effect relationship with the Earth, but not with the Sun.

But the reason I try to honour things, is not for the thing, it is for me. I feel better, happier, and more helpful, when I at the least, don’t take things for granted. Even though the Sun does not care that I exist, which I know it doesn’t, I am just accepting the fact that I wouldn’t be here without it. Same goes for the Universe. Cause and effect, the entire way, until I am right here, typing to you.

I know the Universe is indifferent, but at least I will not think of it as malicious anymore.

And above all, it does provide everything I need to live, and for that I try to give thanks, by honouring it, by being aware of it.

That just helps me feel a little more grounded and outside of my head. That in turn helps me to be a better human, so I can have better relationships with humans.

So, if your not asking for help, or answers to questions, I shouldn’t be providing any help or answers.
I will try harder to understand and model myself after the universe.

Pastor Jennifer on June 24, 2008, 3:48 PM

I think we are all in agreement that we are extremely fortunate to exist. To be astounded by the majesty of the universe and also by the existence of our beautiful little home planet is a cause to be reverential and is a motivation for stewardship. HP you know that, just as much as HZ does

sciencesaves on June 24, 2008, 3:55 PM

luke, You’re in a good mood today!
He pretty much made fun of everybody, but he was able to cut through crap faster than a machete thru spaghetti.
I think he would’ve lived longer if he had given up the nose-candy sooner in life. Heart failure.

hz, Your appreciation of things – all, is truly inspiring! Good medicine.

gfds fds on June 24, 2008, 6:43 PM

An honest critic does more for the faith than a thousand who uncritically profess. One of my teachers, Dr. Hotz, used to tell us that if we would be a heretic, be bold and intentional in heresy. I think that Carlin was both.

Musycks on June 24, 2008, 9:41 PM

Tiak… great advice! I’ll try to be a bolder heretic! (groan from Jesse, Luke and pokoj) ;)

Herbie… one of your best sentiments mate.
Honour the Earth. Spot on.

SS… Carlin will be missed. He told me God loves me but that he needs money? who do I send the donations to now?!

sciencesaves on June 25, 2008, 9:41 AM

musycks and Carlin, both fallen-away catholic boys with enough sense to see through the fallacies of all religions, and attempt to enlighten others…

I’m not concerned for my kids in the least bit, bring on the bible study, it seems to separate the weak-(minded), from the strong…

Natural selection? Too harsh?

It’s your life, your responsibility, no excuses.

dennis ilic on June 25, 2008, 9:53 AM

ss, good point about the bible studies. It worked for me.
Not too harsh at all. Very astute observation.

sciencesaves on June 25, 2008, 10:13 AM

hz, Thanks, I felt like doing a duck-and-cover after that little post!

Musycks on June 26, 2008, 2:01 AM

Catholics don’t scare me… the Pope will be in Sydney in a couple of weeks… I’m already stocking up on eggs and rotten tomatoes!!

sciencesaves on June 26, 2008, 10:01 AM

musycks, Sorry about the “fallen away” reference, that’s a (catholic) term that popped into my head due to the title of that disc I sent you. Allow me to restate:

Musycks and Carlin, the brothers gave them a thirst for knowledge, and they never went back to cherry-picking again!

I’m impressed by both of you.

Jesse Akers on June 30, 2008, 5:47 PM

lewis black, george carlin, an numerous other angry old men seem to always inpire us because of their “wit” and their old stubborn man mentality, another example i guess of the inherent divide between adherents to faith and adherents to those with the philosphy that because they dont believe they need to bash everyone who does, and the more bold they are about it the more heroic they become i suppose, I guess whatever it takes for you to enjoy life, muyscs I trust that your are enjoying life and I hope that Carlin did, venting anger i wonder, does that count as joy? for me anger was awlays a hinderance to joy

Jesse Akers on June 30, 2008, 5:48 PM

lewis black, george carlin, an numerous other angry old men seem to always inpire us because of their “wit” and their old stubborn man mentality, another example i guess of the inherent divide between adherents to faith and adherents to those with the philosphy that because they dont believe they need to bash everyone who does, and the more bold they are about it the more heroic they become i suppose, I guess whatever it takes for you to enjoy life, muyscs I trust that your are enjoying life and I hope that Carlin did, venting anger i wonder, does that count as joy? for me anger was awlays a hinderance to joy

Jesse Akers on June 30, 2008, 5:53 PM

lewis black, george carlin, an numerous other angry old men seem to always inpire us because of their “wit” and their old stubborn man mentality, another example i guess of the inherent divide between adherents to faith and adherents to those with the philosphy that because they dont believe they need to bash everyone who does, and the more bold they are about it the more heroic they become i suppose, I guess whatever it takes for you to enjoy life, muyscs I trust that your are enjoying life and I hope that Carlin did, venting anger i wonder, does that count as joy? for me anger was awlays a hinderance to joy

Jesse Akers on June 30, 2008, 5:55 PM

i didnt mean to post that three time…what the heck??

sciencesaves on June 30, 2008, 10:06 PM

Okay jesse, you owe me two…no, three comments now! haha

Yeah, Carlin made a very nice living, and supported expensive drug habits, among other things, with his observations. He became a seemingly angry, ranting old man, but he was a somewhat private, hard-working intellectual, off-stage. One thing about the routines regarding religion: He was not really attempting to be funny, it was a serious attempt to get people thinking, with a few comedic measures thrown in.

Lewis Black? The man looks as if he will go into cardiac arrest during his acts!

As for musycks, I feel like I understand his viewpoint because mine is nearly identical. Two fortyish music lovers on opposite sides of the earth who have similar family situations. He really is a good person, and I’m glad to know him. I think we both get along just fine, thanks. What may seem like anger on the text is usually only frustration or irritation, misinterpreted as anger. As you know, it can be extremely difficult to show others the how and why of your viewpoint, what makes sense to one, can be ridiculous to another.

I guess that’s what makes it interesting.

Musycks on June 30, 2008, 10:49 PM

Jesse… don’t confuse frustration with anger… they are not always the same thing. I’d say neither ss nor I are particularly angry people.