Re: Who are we?

Description: Ayaan Hirsi Ali answers the question, "Who are we?".

Question: How do you understand human nature?

Transcript: I believe that there is human nature, and that good . . . what we consider to be good or virtuous, and what we consider to be bad are all in us – in each and every individual. But that as conscious beings, we are able to discern what we consider good and to develop that, and to suppress the bad side in us – the jealousy, the unkindness, the desire to dominate and, you know, kill.  All these desires are in us.  But the more we become aware of them, the more we are able to control them, to restrain them.  And that that is part of reason, _________ with reason.  There are more and more people coming up and attacking reason and saying that’s not the case; but I do believe that that’s . . . all of us are born with it.  It doesn’t mean to say we are all born reasonable, but the faculty is there. 

Question: What forces have shaped humanity most?

Transcript: When you asked me this question, the first book that popped up in my mind is __________ “Road to Civilization”.  Yeah, where he describes what we were before we were civilized, all the way to how we’ve come to evolve and change; and the Greeks and the way they lived, and how everything after . . .  For a long time we lost all that knowledge.  And fortunately because it was saved, we can get right back to it.  What is the constant?  The constant is the curiosity; consciousness; having to deal with the question of death.  That has made some human minds to be so creative as to invent the hereafter and so on, and others to go quite the opposite . . . in the opposite direction.

Question: How do Islamic and Western perspectives differ?

Transcript: If I compare first, say, Islam or the Islamic world versus European Americans – western world – I would say one is knowledge-based.  The institutions that we have in the west have been inspired by the thinkers and the enlightenment.  Human freedom creates the conditions for humans to be free and to pursue their happiness.  With incremental changes here and there, this conflict . . . you know you talk it out and you have all that.  At least you try and resolve it as much as possible through words.  And by “knowledge-based”, I mean there is this constant desire to innovate.  Constant research is going on.  Science is a major part of that.  Religion has been pushed back to the private sphere.  Or it’s become part of the civil or . . .  It’s pluralistic.  People respect each other’s religions or not having one.  There’s a whole debate on the place of government and capitalism and that kind of thing.  But basically it’s knowledge-based.  If I can convince you that my idea is better by presenting you with the evidence, you’ve been trained to at least entertain them even if you don’t accept them.  The Muslim world, on the other hand, is not evidence-based.  It’s dogma-based.  There’s the tradition of the tribe.  There’s the bloodline.  There’s the Koran.  There is God.  These things don’t change.  We do things the way we used to do.  We don’t _________ history.  We don’t . . . That’s responsible for part of the backwardness. 

Question: How do Europe and the United States differ?

Transcript: What is the difference between America and Europe as I observe it __________ the Islamic challenge?  Americans are still very experimental; still very much, “We’ve done it.  We’re a young nation.  We can change the world.”  Versus those within the U.S. who say, “No,  we should not interfere with the affairs of others countries and other nations unless our own . . . the American interest is threatened in any way.”  Europe is the old continent.  They think that they have gone . . . that they have seen it all, they’ve had it all, and they’ve come to the conclusion . . . at least part of the leadership has come to the conclusion, “We can resolve all problems by avoiding violence.”  I think that is really wrong.  I agree more with the Americans who say you ought to be prepared to defend freedom not only with words, but also through military means.  In other words, you’d also be willing to give your sons and daughters up for it.  I think . . . I hope that the transatlantic relationship will improve; in which case the Europeans will be today . . . should be willing to ally with and learn more from America and not tribal or, you know, enhance their tribal ________.  Because after 1989 and the E.U., there’s been this mindset within Europe that America is a rival.  And I think that’s a very dangerous idea today.

Recorded on: 8/15/07