Big Think

Bryan Cridlebaugh on April 7, 2008, 1:30 AM

No one here knows for sure what happens when we die. That scares a lot of people when they think about it. It’s the big question for a lot of people. Not just Christians. Just to think of the question scares the shit out of some people. So………………… without all the answers beliefs came about. The Bible offers an answer, tells a story that attracts the masses. With lists of moral values that fit their desire. It offers a heaven where you will be with the maker of life, the all knowing and live euphoricly with the hero of the whole story..and all your loved ones. The bible has been tweaked a little throughout the last 2000 years to fit the times and desires of the Christian masses, but the message for the most part is be good, love something that is very powerful, fear it if you don’t want it (by “something” and “it” I mean the Christians idea of God), fear the devil, so you better be good. Maybe, the idea is to scare people into something that is trying to tell them to be good and love. Really, it may have served it’s purpose in a way. So I think those Christians that ‘fear and hate death with a passion’ do so mostly because of the fear of what they believe is the devil and the fear of what they believe is God. I think you know why they think murder is a travesty.

Musycks on April 7, 2008, 1:59 AM

Maybe they really don’t believe the ‘beautiful lie’ after all?

the corollary to that damstorm, is that atheists are far more likely to support ‘death with dignity’ movements.
Xtians will let someone live in a vegetative state rather than pass in peace.
Why are the faithful so scared of treating extremely ill humans with some respect?
any life here is better than no life, however awful it is, apparently ‘so keep suffering, it’s Gods will’… square that circle with, ‘but paradise awaits you on the other side’.. and if you’re a lucky suicide bomber type, virgins akimbo!

better the devil you know?

Jeff Delano on April 7, 2008, 2:19 AM

Enlightened Buddhists seem to be the only people throughout history who don’t fear death. Perhaps they know what will happen when you die. You ever see the pictures of the monk who caught himself on fire until he died in the middle of the streets to draw attention to China’s aggression towards Tibet??

Musycks on April 7, 2008, 2:23 AM

Jeff,
The suicide bombers will tell you they ‘know’ what will happen when they die also….. virgins akimbo!
Let’s agree the Bhuddists, gentle souls all, have no better idea of what lies beyond that vale than you or I?

Jeff Delano on April 7, 2008, 2:47 AM

Oh yes, good point musycks, the extreme fundamentalists of Islam are the same as the enlightened monks are they not? It seems that extremities of certain mainstream religions know in their minds what will happen when they die. But on the other hand you can compare the muslim suicide bombers to the Japanese Kamikaze pilots. They died for country, just as the Muslims are dieing for country and protection of their resources via religious extremism. The Buddhists don’t take out other human lives with them because they are doing the ultimate sacrifice of sort of a voluntary martyrdom by self for their countrymen. They have respect for their other-selves lives. Was Jesus not a martyr, at least in the bible’s writings of what happened, we can’t be too sure of anything in the bible these days.

Musycks on April 7, 2008, 3:04 AM

settle Jeff.. I never said that.
I said they were both sure of what would happen to them after they exited this life.
of course there is a moral distinction to taking your own life and deliberately harming others in the process to what the monk has done…. although is harming oneself moral?

Jeff Delano on April 7, 2008, 3:23 AM

Morality is outdated, to me at least, I believe morality was created by the church to provide blanket answers for random spontaneous questions that will arise. I like to follow ethics though, which are spontaneous answers to spontaneous questions, each individual situation gets and individual evaluation and an individual answer as to what the person or persons involved believe to be the best answer, for everyone is divine equally.

Faceless Atheist on April 7, 2008, 3:29 AM

morality morality morality.

The idea of being sure you know what happens after death can lead to horrible consequences, as shown in suicide bombers and kamakazee pilots. It could also lead to actions such as those performed by the buddhist monks mentioned. It just depends on who is interpreting the idea.

Any belief that purports to know the mind of god, or our destination after death, does so to allay our fears surrounding one of the few things we can all agree on, we will die. People who truely believe should, then, completely loose fear of death. This allows them to treat their body as expendable, and as a tool to further whatever cause they believe in, meeting death unafraid. You can garauntee that they believe their demise to be moral, otherwise they wouldn’t be fearless. I think ideas that claim a 100% knowledge of such things are dangerous, even those not inspired by religion.

Jeff Delano on April 7, 2008, 3:37 AM

I’m not afraid of death, but if someone were to kill me I would be pissed because I have a lot of work to do in this life. But I can’t be pissed because I have to learn to love unconditionally, even if I were to be murdered by someone I must forgive them. Wow, now talk about a tough situation to be in.

David Storm on April 7, 2008, 8:42 PM

My point simply was that I think most Christians don’t believe 100% of the dogma and that shadow of a doubt is fueling their fear of death. Not only do they not know what happens when they die, but they don’t want to be wrong when it happens either. I think they follow religion and claim to believe in it because it is the popular thing to do, they were raised in it, they think it makes them look like a better person, ect. I never thought about the Muslim suicide bombers or the Japanese Kamakazis (sp?) and you bring up good points. Maybe we are better off leaving Christians to believe slightly than push them one way or the other.

David Storm on April 7, 2008, 8:48 PM

I think another reason why we don’t have suicide bombers in this country is because people have too much stuff. In poorer, less materialistic countries people are more willing to fully give their lives than the guy with the flat-screen plasma. I am in the military and I have served in Iraq and the closest thing I can find in this country to people willing to die for a cause or belief are the soldiers and airmen in the sand. But even then it’s a far-cry from suicide missions. Most troops are both willing to die and kill for their country but from I’ve seen, they would rather do more of the latter. So would I!

Musycks on April 7, 2008, 9:08 PM

Damstorm… Did Iraq give you another perspective on faith based claims? Your point about not having stuff might be part of it, but consider the London bombers? These were normal boys from Leeds, a sleepy northern UK town. They were idealistic enough and impressionable enough to be led by the mad mullahs to killing fellow Brits in the name of Allah. They had plenty by world standards.
Belief in a virginal reward system notwithstanding… how could we come to this?
either way you cut it, why would you not want to believe the ‘beautiful lie’? it’s very attractive. Just not very believable.

Edward C on April 8, 2008, 2:50 AM

Why do Christians hate and fear death?

Because they don’t try to be like Jesus at all ;-)

Musycks on April 8, 2008, 3:10 AM

nameless, but Jesus had the game rigged from the start? he knew he had death beat hands down.. (which is the subject of one of my questions)… therefore what did he sacrifice if we believe the traditional story… nothing it seems?
be like Jesus? well..
if I were a carpenter…

sciencesaves on April 8, 2008, 10:19 PM

Because they are not as certain about what awaits them as are the enlightened ones like us. I hope i’m old enough to be ready for a long nap when my time comes…

pokój! on May 22, 2008, 12:51 AM

I’m a Christian and I do neither… though I don’t speak for all…
Why do you think we do?

Jason Mancer on October 5, 2008, 12:12 PM

i think that is the difference between a devoted christian and a ‘go with the flow’ christian
, i might say that i dont fear death but in the actually lif or death situation a may act differently as would many who claim to ‘not fear death’

also christians veiw death differently then most
to us death is hell and heaven is life ‘basicly’ our end on earth is not death to us

Matt Pidlysny on November 24, 2008, 1:08 PM

Well, I think it stems from the fact that they also serve a purpose on Earth. Should they die, sure there’s mourning after but it’s God’s will that they die so that keeps them going. If people remained in question as to what happens when you die (Either nothing, or heaven like) I think they would go bonkers.