Big Think

Bill W on June 7, 2009, 9:47 PM

Many social welfare systems are founded on the principal of the working paying for those not working – whether it be for disability or unemployment.  Look at social security, which is described as an entitlement program but is social welfare when you look at it closely.  Social security is the largest legal ponzi scheme in the world.  And like other ponzi schemes, it shall collapse from its own weight.  The same will happen across the world, just as David noted, because the rate at which the population is growing it is unable to sustain such social welfare programs.

Vicki Nikolaidis on July 3, 2009, 3:11 AM

Hi David, I enjoy your interviews on Big Think inteviews.  You make some good points in a gentle way.

I don’t think you’re working from an accurate set of assumptions for the European Union though.  I’m probably one of those “American Liberals” to whom you refer.  I lived most of my life in the United States (born and raised there) and my mind is open to change towards positive goals.

I immigrated to the E.U. about a decade ago for a better health care system and educational system for my children.  As well as a safer place to raise children.  I live in Crete (the large Greek island between Europe and Africa) and have found my expectations have been met.

The E.U. has met the main goal of forming a European community to end the inter-European wars that were devastating.

Although many languages and customs need to be kept in mind when the E.U. has meetings technology has helped communication go smoothly.  Much more smoothly and civilly than in the U.S.A.’s Senate or House of Representatives.

A working democracy requires articulate diplomacy, a desire of the majority to find common workable solutions to common problems and time to communicate sufficiently with citizens whether they be working people, stay at home moms, leaders, in other words,everyone.  Time and patience are required.

In general the populations in European countries have not declined because the refugees and immigrants forced out of their countries in Africa and the Middle East have landed in Europe in droves due to English-American foreign and trade policy decisions.  For example, the wars against Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia. Ethopia, etc.  The most damaging trade policies have been in concert with oil companies.  The most egregious example being the hell created by Shell in the Niger Delta.

My point being Europe has people from all over the world in great numbers.  Most of these are young men who their parents don’t want to see dead before their time.  These young men are hard working, fast learners and intelligent.  They are fully capable of becoming a successful workforce to make up for the ‘end of bloodlines’ in some countries.  But Italy is an example of non acceptance of reality and is only hurting itself.  Most Italians seem to have no problem displaying their racism openly and meanly in their cities and their airports.  When the Italians are forced to embrace the “foreigners” as their new middle class the process of caring for the elderly will be able to continue.  Surely they won’t let the elderly simply die off before that happens.

Subsidies are a problem in the E.U. but not in the way you present them.  For instance, Spain olive tree farmers used money from the E.U. to organize excellently to produce and export their olive oil.  I have seen high quality Spanish olive oil sold more cheaply than the same product here in Crete. (Crete provides a huge amount of olive to the world market.)  Some projects work some don’t true.  But when something works, a good model for other has been established.

Another point on farm subsidies.  Instead of using the money to subsidize the same poor way of continuing agricultural practices all that needs to be done is too switch gears and do away with the corporate model of farming.  In order to sustain food growing capacity the E.U. can use subsidies to rejuvenate and protect soils and incorporate good water management practices.  The E.U. is continuing to have great success in developing better soil and water mgt. practices.  How long will farmers need to adapt to a new way of doing things? The young farmers are adapting ahead of the E.U. so I have optimism.

Is it possible that dismissing Bulgaria and Romania is a bit racist?  The citizens of both countries are facing an uphill and difficult battle no doubt about their problems.  But their scientists are still working with other European scientists to find solutions.  This would not be possible without the formation of the E.U.  And northern Europeans and southern Europeans are getting together everyday to solve technical, scientific and educational obstacles.  In this way northern Europe is having to shake is having to shake off its arrogance towards the south.  This is good.

Bill W.  I’m not sure that Ponzi scheme compares well to Social Security.  Perhaps you could elaborate.

For a few thousand years the human race has survived because the strong help the more vulnerable.  Why stop now? (rhetorical question)

Taking care of the elderly isn’t only a question of Social Security.  The biggest obstacle is a for profit health care system.  In terms of health care providers there are plenty of excellent providers that can’t find employment.  People can take care of themselves in a community when they are allowed power within their own communities to proceed.

Thanks for reading my thoughts.