Interview Transcript

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Richard Oakes on February 16, 2009, 5:30 PM

Call me cynical if you like, but the notion of Christianity as a precondition for successful capitalism is preposterous.

Case Study: The United State …
The United State has the highest adherence of Christianity (on a percentage and outright level) of any country on earth. The United States has a record of corporate misbehaviour, corruption, bankruptsy and corporate fraud and tax evasion that has lead it to its current disolute state.

I applaud the call for greater honesty and integrity in our corporate leaders. However, I doubt that those values are central to the mess of double speak, lies and willful irrationality that passes for Christianity.

RO

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shawn disney on February 16, 2009, 11:09 PM

The point about the influence of Economists (and Calculus) in perverting Business Management is really original and interesting , I think. The net result has certainly been catastrophic. About the necessity of Religion, I’m afraid he is way off base; especially bizarre in getting this idea from a Chinese man, of all people. Following social rules without Police absolutely does not require Religion. Western religions have argued that it does,but that is very selfserving,and not very convincing ,given the History. Some good examples of doing “Business by Handshake” are 1.) Quakers.(Not traditionally considered “religious” by Christians) 2.) Old China, when there was a Shame culture, and very strong social groups, reinforced by the corresponding Philosophy (It seems agreed that China never really went in for Religion). Some recent researches among animal groups seems to indicate that ideas like fairness etc. are not exclusively Human, and it seems odd that God would give animals Religion of some sort..disigny

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Arun Janardhanan on February 17, 2009, 12:40 AM

Most of the modern day society rules have to be taught to children for it to be followed. There is nothing instinctive about it. Their ‘willingness’ (for the lack of a better word) to follow those rules have evolutionary origins as we humans have been living in groups for a long time. There is nothing religious about it and no religious texts make a person pay taxes and not commit murder. Ironically both bible and Quran force people to commit murder and do other vulgar activities. The author is wasting his and others time finding links that aren’t there.

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Zachary Shtogren on February 18, 2009, 6:13 PM

Hi everyone and thanks for your contributions. It sounds like we are mostly Christensen detractors here but I’m surprised to read no one seems to
see Christianity’s (or any relgion’s) strong tendency toward groupthink. Throughout American history Christianity and religion have gone hand-in-hand despite dictums about rich men, camels, and eyes of needles…

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Adam Kuebler on March 6, 2009, 1:21 AM

There have been some twisting of words here. First of all he didn’t say Christianity had to be the religion, he said it had to be a religion which upheld the five principles, and had enough ability to persuade it’s followers. He was also not talking about natural instinct, he was speaking of learned instinct. You learn the behavior and it becomes habit, nature, instinct. It probably wasn’t the best choice of words on his part but the point remains the same. Also, Richard says that the U.S. is an exception to the rule. However, he says that we are heading in the wrong direction. We have this basis left over from our fathers but our culture is slowly corrupting and destroying it. Finally “However, I doubt that those values are central to the mess of double speak, lies and willful irrationality that passes for Christianity.” and “There is nothing religious about it and no religious texts make a person pay taxes and not commit murder. Ironically both bible and Quran force people to commit murder and do other vulgar activities.” You both should probably do a it more thorough research before you make statements like that. “Give to Caesar what is Caesar” and “Thou shall not murder.” The other points are a bit more in depth. If you want further clarification e-mail me at atkuebler [at] yahoo [dot] com.

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Ryan Sumo on April 8, 2009, 10:09 PM

He raises some good points. While I’m at this point in my life an agnostic I certainly remember Bible study that taught me about the good samaritan, doing unto others as you wish others to do unto you, and countless other parables that have shaped me into the person I am.

Over time, I came to realize that these morals and ethics were not inherent to Catholics and indeed could be possessed by people with no avowed faith,and chose to live my life along those values while shedding the Church-going mindset.

Perhaps the use of the word “religion” in this particular segment is what is causing the ruckus. Had he used the term “deeply rooted belief system”, more people might be inclined to agree.

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nigel Knox on April 10, 2009, 5:19 PM

Clayton Christensen is really making two separate points here. The first is that economic growth is linked to the rule of law, and the willingness of the population to abide by laws even though they are unlikely be punished for breaking them.
The second is that only religious people follow a moral codes.
The first point is valid point for discussion.
The second though is skating very close to bigotry. Does Mr Christensen have any proof to back up this claim? As a humanist, I find it highly insulting to be accused of being lower moral fibre and therefore inherently less likely to follow the rule of law. Surely, the more relevant point is that being a democracy, the population has a say, if not absolute control over the law, and therefore are more likely to abide by it? Why is this need to be so insulting to people of a different opinion than himself. I raise the challenge therefore, either provide proof that church attendance is linked to lower crime rates, or withdraw the remark.


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