I spent nine years going to lectures at university. During those lectures no one tried to convince me of anything. They generally took the form of a bored lecturer getting through his notes for the nth time just to cover the syllabus. Even when the lecturer in question had authored the recommended text he (nearly always a he in physics thirty years ago) was seldom enthusiastic. On the rare occasion when a younger lecturer had retained some personality or enthusiasm he still wasn't trying to convince us of anything, just eager to share a bit of interesting knowledge and keen that we should be as interested in it as he still was. Sadly I never went to a lecture by Richard Feynman or anyone of his calibre.
In contrast the preachers I have witnessed giving sermons have more of the Derren Brown about them. They never appear to be what I would describe as simply spreading the good news. They sound and behave like snake oil men (yes nearly always men) selling something. There are plenty such sermons to choose from on the internet if you don’t want to witness one in person. I recommend that believers of all persuasions go and listen to sermons from religions or sects that are not their own. It's easier to see what's going on then. They range from the obvious mental soporifics of ritual and chanting (usually retained by the older established religions such as Islam, Catholicism, Judaism, High Anglicanism, Orthodox Christianity) to the spitting evangelist playing with the emotions of the audience.
This epitomises the contrast between teaching and preaching to me. Preachers are often self-evidently trying to convince us of something, teachers are generally neutral. It's true that good teachers try to inspire an enthusiasm for the subject but they are never trying to convince us of anything.
Evangelical Christians in the US tell us that science is a belief and that 'evolutionists' (a term used to embrace all scientists as far as I can tell) are trying to subvert our children and our morals. They seek to place teaching and preaching on the same stage. Just comparing the two types of performance I think that we can judge the truth.
Is religious preaching trying to teach us something or trying to convince us of something?
September 21, 2009 | In Belief
Discuss
sciencesaves on September 21, 2009, 12:36 PM
Once again, astute observations and accurate conclusions. No convincing necessary, when the facts speak for themselves.
This is why religious concepts should never be allowed to interfere with education. Teaching is the spread of knowledge, preaching is attempting crude mind control through methods that still seem to work on the unfortunate victims of an elaborate ruse designed for a more ignorant general population.
Clergymen…the ultimate snake-oil salesmen…
tim hall on September 21, 2009, 2:18 PM
I don’t think the children are empressed by the sermon. They just set through this man yelling about something. He jumps around that darn book so much, it just sounds like jibberish to them. The children get theirs in bible class. A slick teen or young adult takes their time with them. They tell them little stories and introduce Jesus towards the end. The children don’t question the strange stories because they are used to mom and dad telling them that their too young to understand yet. They just think it is another one of those grown-up mysteries that they have to wait to find out.
Sadly, their parents are not listening to the whole sermon either. They are mostly there to here hooray! hooray! and a few other familiar words and phrases that help to reassure that they are good people (even after the car salesman just sold a car at twice it’s value etc.) If they really listened to the sermon they would have a lot of questions. Another words, they know it does not make sense in the real world, but they are fine with that. The preacher sometimes tries to relate the biblical stories to the real world to make more sense and get folks to live righteously. The less informed like that. They leave saying “preach-man had great sermon today, Show Did!”
They will never let go of it no matter if science does prove that the world is round. Like Herbi says, it is a drug. A crutch. It helps them with stablizing thoughts. It gives the salesman the moral right that he needs to better provide for his family. If he sold over priced cars without it, he would have to stay drunk most of the time to cope with his fallen morals.
Musycks on September 21, 2009, 9:50 PM
Herbie… I’ll grant you those TV evangelists are good for light entertainment value… I never cease to get a laugh when I tune in. Good luck with asking a believer to view the opposition for a whiff of the scope of the con though… it’s like telling them to think about all the reasons they don’t believe in Zeus, Thor, Mithras, Odin, Baal, Horus, Osirus et al and then they’ll understand why I don’t believe in Jesus, Yahweh or Allah. They never seem to get the point.
and I like Derren Brown!
sciencesaves on September 22, 2009, 9:00 AM
That’s right, those prone to irrational belief will choose which illusion they prefer, if they’ve not already been forced into one of the many organized and seemingly “normal” ones still around in the present.
I have to use the channel block to reduce the chances of my impressionable children viewing the stomach-churning, mind-numbing and insulting religious programs that have become big-business here. They already get the watered-down version too frequently, and that’s scary enough.
I have to remain hopeful that they’re smart enough to comprehend the charade when they mature, or the lack of personal growth will cause problems indefinitely…
tim hall on September 22, 2009, 2:32 PM
S.S., I think your kids are safe. If you don’t brain wash them by eight years of age, today’s communication tech. takes over. The flip side is, guess what? After eight years old, they know every thing that is going to come out of your mouth before you say it.
HerbieP on September 23, 2009, 2:20 AM
There is a recent example from Ray Comfort that illustrates the difference between preaching and teaching. Ray has produced an edition of the Origin of Species with his own introduction. He is giving this away free at US campuses. You can read the ‘introduction’ here: http://assets.livingwaters.com/pdf/OriginofSpecies.pdf
Ray is seeking to undermine the teaching of science with a direct proselytising attack on learning. Unlike the biologists inside the institutions, he is using emotional arguments to sway his audience. I’m not sure what relevance he thinks that Hitler’s dotty ideas about race have to do with the validity of evolution but it is certainly intended to influence.
Biologists themselves welcome the challenges to current evidence, it’s what caeers are built upon. Unfortunately Ray’s challenges are spurious and disingenuous or the products of willful ignorance.
Musycks on September 24, 2009, 8:51 PM
Thanks for the link HP.. it was hard work reading that drivel and sadly no surprise. The attempt to dress it up as semi legitimate Darwin biographical info was cute. The circuitous and tortured logic might fool some, but only the closed minded. Of course the Hitler stuff is par for the course. Guilt by association. Your choice… line up with Adolph the epitome of evil (even though he was Catholic and mentioned he was doing God’s work in persecuting the Jews) or bathe in the reflected glory of Jesus, the invisible sky wizard of love. Quasi-philosophy for the feeble minded.. of course he’ll have them rolling in the aisles!
HerbieP on September 25, 2009, 3:55 AM
Sorry to have put you through that Musycks. Ray epitomises the anti-reason of the religious to me so it’s a bit of an obsession.
sciencesaves on September 26, 2009, 7:58 AM
Very interesting and entertaining in a sad way. I’m continually fascinated by the futile efforts of the irrational to convince others that they somehow know what the origin of life is, and all that it implies without any supporting evidence.
Pure fiction.
tim hall on September 26, 2009, 11:22 AM
I’m with S.S, if you can’t prove the origin. Shut-up and keep working on it.
What made god? It is the same ingnorant crap. Has zero validity.
tim hall on September 26, 2009, 11:22 AM
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