I don’t believe in any gods. I don’t believe in Yahweh, Yahweh v.2 (Jesus), Yahweh v.3 (Allah), Thor, Zeus, Isis, Mithras, Mars, Bacchus, Loki and any of hundreds of others that men have invented over the centuries.
If you don’t believe in any one of the above, then just apply the same reasons to all to reach my position.
The natural universe is awe inspiring and beautiful enough. It is a self regulating evolving environment, and totally indifferent to all life forms. It’s what we’re from and where we’ll go to in whatever form it takes. No God required.
Great post musycks. We differ only in the gods we each choose as examples.
This forum has established many ineresting things for me. One of them is how many believers, each with very different beliefs, assume a common understanding of what they mean by ‘god’. In particular they seem to think that the contemporary middle American christian god is the template. They completely leave out other cultures, religions, the vast history of worshipping disparate gods of all kinds, including the journey of metamorphosis their own god has taken.
HP, there is a thread of mine called “What is your definition of God? 100 words or less”. You might be interested in it. It is like a case study, or a sample base, or whatever it is called, there is about a hundred or so different and similar definitions. It kind of makes the point that we are arguing more about the definition of the word God, than making any progress in either defining it, or recognizing it, or encouraging it. The tower of Babel, anyone?
sharpe: Yes, I believe in G-d… but not a man with a beard sitting in a cloud with a gavel…
I do because I feel Him tugging on my heartstrings… and because I feel absence when I am spiritually lazy…
so as not to be too esoteric :P
herbie: “One of them is how many believers, each with very different beliefs, assume a common understanding of what they mean by ‘god’. In particular they seem to think that the contemporary middle American christian god is the template. They completely leave out other cultures, religions, the vast history of worshipping disparate gods of all kinds, including the journey of metamorphosis their own god has taken.”
Thats funny, I always felt that is how atheists approached the common idea of “god”…
Its not G-d that changes, its human understanding…
pokoj… but you base your understanding on what you say are his biblically inscribed words… which is how ‘he’ wanted it according to you. I say that is no basis for an understanding of much at all, let alone of an etherial, incorporeal, all powerful entity unbounded by time and space, but who ‘loves’ me nonetheless?
“Thats funny, I always felt that is how atheists approached the common idea of “god”…" Well pokoj the reason that I am not an atheist is that I cannot show that all gods do not exist. There are as many gods as there are believers, only some of them are self evidently non-existant. Many of them (such as yours) exist in fantasy realms such as other ‘dimensions’ where they are inaccessible to logic or science.
HerbieP you have failed to understand entirely. I’m no longer going to have discussions with you because you learn nothing, plus your buddy musycks seems to get too excited when he reads your messages to me. I’m over it.
I know that you are going to continue acting immature and try to make fun of me with whatever ‘clever’ saying you can think of but deep down you will know that you have failed because a person 20 years younger than you is being the bigger man and is just ignoring your nonsense.
for me.. fair enough JD… but please keep a copy of all Herbie said to you, and 20 years from now please re-visit it… (and yes I’m assuming the world is still lurching along post Dec 2012).. you might then realise the depth of your ignorance and the chance you missed. c’est la vie.
Well besides that lets get back on track to the originally posted idea. All I can say is in your own little worlds you are right and I can’t change your minds because you refuse to see the big picture.
I believe that there was an original creator, then came sub and co creators, I’m not sure what exactly the original creator is but it is the source of all creation and my consciousness is all the proof I need that I was created so that’s why I believe.
Jeff… an ant was ‘created’ by the same thing that created you under your model.. a leaf too for that matter? how spiritual is an ant or a leaf? do they ‘believe’ in god or your creator?
How am I supposed to know what an ant or a leaf thinks? For one, I’m pretty sure that those don’t think anything like a human so I wont be able to understand them. Your atheist arguments are getting so repetitive and old it’s getting kind of pointless to to keep posting on this website.
To me it seems like this, “If me and another human can agree on something through our understanding of science then it is true… until it is proven wrong (which it will be), if me and my atheist buddy can’t understand something and science can’t prove it right or wrong then it is automatically wrong.” It’s such a narrow-minded concept it’s disgusting.
The original source of creation is perfection, humans are imperfect, your a logical and rational atheist aren’t you? Tell me, how does an imperfect thing describe a perfect thing?
Fortunately more people are starting to think like myself and realize they can’t understand what the original creator is but still aknowledges that it exists/existed.
as an imperfect human yourself Jeff, your ideas about perfection are therefore inadequate also? Your creator exists because you say it does… Is your creator still around? How do you know more people are starting to think like you? do you have any statistics on this?
Exactly, my idea of perfection is inadequate. Therefore why should you believe me? Don’t take my word for it when it comes down to having faith. If something I say blows your mind and makes you decide to have faith then good on ya (I know Australian too ;) ).
One thing you have to know is that it isn’t my creator, it’s everyones creator, it’s just my interpretation of it.
How do I know more people are beginning to think like me? I talk to people and I read it on this website, more and more people are beginning to realize how rediculous both atheism and theism is so they just realize that the golden rule is the supreme rule of life. They don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
Plus easterners already know all of this stuff and have for millenia.
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Discuss
Musycks on July 29, 2008, 11:53 PM
well Sharpe… you don’t ask for much?!
I don’t believe in any gods. I don’t believe in Yahweh, Yahweh v.2 (Jesus), Yahweh v.3 (Allah), Thor, Zeus, Isis, Mithras, Mars, Bacchus, Loki and any of hundreds of others that men have invented over the centuries.
If you don’t believe in any one of the above, then just apply the same reasons to all to reach my position.
The natural universe is awe inspiring and beautiful enough. It is a self regulating evolving environment, and totally indifferent to all life forms. It’s what we’re from and where we’ll go to in whatever form it takes.
No God required.
HerbieP on July 30, 2008, 2:55 AM
Well I particularly don’t believe in Ra.
HerbieP on July 30, 2008, 3:44 AM
Great post musycks. We differ only in the gods we each choose as examples.
This forum has established many ineresting things for me. One of them is how many believers, each with very different beliefs, assume a common understanding of what they mean by ‘god’. In particular they seem to think that the contemporary middle American christian god is the template. They completely leave out other cultures, religions, the vast history of worshipping disparate gods of all kinds, including the journey of metamorphosis their own god has taken.
Musycks on July 30, 2008, 3:53 AM
thanks HP… and the Ra jibe had me instantly grinning!
dennis ilic on July 30, 2008, 11:17 AM
HP, there is a thread of mine called “What is your definition of God? 100 words or less”. You might be interested in it. It is like a case study, or a sample base, or whatever it is called, there is about a hundred or so different and similar definitions. It kind of makes the point that we are arguing more about the definition of the word God, than making any progress in either defining it, or recognizing it, or encouraging it.
The tower of Babel, anyone?
pokój! on July 30, 2008, 8:50 PM
sharpe:
Yes, I believe in G-d… but not a man with a beard sitting in a cloud with a gavel…
I do because I feel Him tugging on my heartstrings… and because I feel absence when I am spiritually lazy…
so as not to be too esoteric :P
herbie:
“One of them is how many believers, each with very different beliefs, assume a common understanding of what they mean by ‘god’. In particular they seem to think that the contemporary middle American christian god is the template. They completely leave out other cultures, religions, the vast history of worshipping disparate gods of all kinds, including the journey of metamorphosis their own god has taken.”
Thats funny, I always felt that is how atheists approached the common idea of “god”…
Its not G-d that changes, its human understanding…
Musycks on July 30, 2008, 10:40 PM
pokoj… but you base your understanding on what you say are his biblically inscribed words… which is how ‘he’ wanted it according to you.
I say that is no basis for an understanding of much at all, let alone of an etherial, incorporeal, all powerful entity unbounded by time and space, but who ‘loves’ me nonetheless?
HerbieP on July 31, 2008, 2:01 AM
“Thats funny, I always felt that is how atheists approached the common idea of “god”…" Well pokoj the reason that I am not an atheist is that I cannot show that all gods do not exist. There are as many gods as there are believers, only some of them are self evidently non-existant. Many of them (such as yours) exist in fantasy realms such as other ‘dimensions’ where they are inaccessible to logic or science.
Jeff Delano on August 3, 2008, 12:15 AM
HerbieP you are definately a lost cause.
Jeff Delano on August 3, 2008, 12:26 AM
HerbieP you have failed to understand entirely. I’m no longer going to have discussions with you because you learn nothing, plus your buddy musycks seems to get too excited when he reads your messages to me. I’m over it.
I know that you are going to continue acting immature and try to make fun of me with whatever ‘clever’ saying you can think of but deep down you will know that you have failed because a person 20 years younger than you is being the bigger man and is just ignoring your nonsense.
Musycks on August 3, 2008, 9:40 PM
for me.. fair enough JD… but please keep a copy of all Herbie said to you, and 20 years from now please re-visit it… (and yes I’m assuming the world is still lurching along post Dec 2012).. you might then realise the depth of your ignorance and the chance you missed.
c’est la vie.
Jeff Delano on August 4, 2008, 2:17 AM
Well besides that lets get back on track to the originally posted idea. All I can say is in your own little worlds you are right and I can’t change your minds because you refuse to see the big picture.
I believe that there was an original creator, then came sub and co creators, I’m not sure what exactly the original creator is but it is the source of all creation and my consciousness is all the proof I need that I was created so that’s why I believe.
Musycks on August 6, 2008, 3:33 AM
Jeff… an ant was ‘created’ by the same thing that created you under your model.. a leaf too for that matter? how spiritual is an ant or a leaf? do they ‘believe’ in god or your creator?
Jeff Delano on August 6, 2008, 7:44 PM
How am I supposed to know what an ant or a leaf thinks? For one, I’m pretty sure that those don’t think anything like a human so I wont be able to understand them. Your atheist arguments are getting so repetitive and old it’s getting kind of pointless to to keep posting on this website.
To me it seems like this, “If me and another human can agree on something through our understanding of science then it is true… until it is proven wrong (which it will be), if me and my atheist buddy can’t understand something and science can’t prove it right or wrong then it is automatically wrong.” It’s such a narrow-minded concept it’s disgusting.
The original source of creation is perfection, humans are imperfect, your a logical and rational atheist aren’t you? Tell me, how does an imperfect thing describe a perfect thing?
Fortunately more people are starting to think like myself and realize they can’t understand what the original creator is but still aknowledges that it exists/existed.
Musycks on August 6, 2008, 9:11 PM
as an imperfect human yourself Jeff, your ideas about perfection are therefore inadequate also?
Your creator exists because you say it does… Is your creator still around?
How do you know more people are starting to think like you? do you have any statistics on this?
Jeff Delano on August 8, 2008, 1:14 AM
Exactly, my idea of perfection is inadequate. Therefore why should you believe me? Don’t take my word for it when it comes down to having faith. If something I say blows your mind and makes you decide to have faith then good on ya (I know Australian too ;) ).
One thing you have to know is that it isn’t my creator, it’s everyones creator, it’s just my interpretation of it.
How do I know more people are beginning to think like me? I talk to people and I read it on this website, more and more people are beginning to realize how rediculous both atheism and theism is so they just realize that the golden rule is the supreme rule of life. They don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
Plus easterners already know all of this stuff and have for millenia.
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