This seems to be a sticking point in debate here. First cause/god gets some support when 'creation' is mooted. For me science explains enough to utterly refute the idea of an 'intelligent design'... the universe is so unimaginably vast (hope everyone has seen the Antares/our sun series of pictures) we are several quantums less than a speck of dust in all the deserts of the world... so why would an intelligent designer make such an amazing, wondrous and magnificent concoction if it was for us in mind? we have zero chance of knowing even the smallest part of it. So the idea that it was all created for us is absurd, which is another nail in the idea of the traditional creator god for me.