Big Think

dennis ilic on June 2, 2008, 12:43 PM

Meditation is lengthening of spaces between thoughts and reduction of thought. Discipline and control over random thoughts.

Andrew Cohen gives everything a bad name.

Shelley Souza on June 2, 2008, 2:29 PM

The experience of meditation is release from mind and that experience is always experienced as happening right NOW. There's nothing gradual in the experiential awareness of meditation when we find ourselves in the Ground of Being. What we experience is a profound sense of knowing nothing in particular, not needing to know anything in particular, having nothing yet feeling utterly fulfilled, not needing anything, and being no one. The experiential quality of meditation is that of liberated awareness and the felt-sense of Freedom itself. The length of time that meditation lasts is less important than directly knowing in the presence of the meditation experience that we are Free NOW and always were.

dennis ilic on June 2, 2008, 4:43 PM

Meditation is lengthening of spaces between thoughts and reduction of thought. Discipline and control over random thoughts.

Andrew Cohen gives everything a bad name.

Shelley Souza on June 2, 2008, 6:29 PM

The experience of meditation is release from mind and that experience is always experienced as happening right NOW. There’s nothing gradual in the experiential awareness of meditation when we find ourselves in the Ground of Being. What we experience is a profound sense of knowing nothing in particular, not needing to know anything in particular, having nothing yet feeling utterly fulfilled, not needing anything, and being no one. The experiential quality of meditation is that of liberated awareness and the felt-sense of Freedom itself. The length of time that meditation lasts is less important than directly knowing in the presence of the meditation experience that we are Free NOW and always were.

aman nomind on June 6, 2008, 4:40 AM

These are Moon Minds, who is trying to explain everything with their knowledgeable words. That is the main reason for their confusion while they have to define meditation.
First, how we actually experience meditation, when we%u2019re not trying to do it? (It is the awakening to consciousness itself) as if consciousness is the destination. How awareness can focus upon particular object that arise in consciousness, may be they are thoughts, object, ideas. As if thoughts, object, ideas are outcome of consciousness. Moon mind thinks consciousness as phenomena.
In summary as he is explaining: consciousness is container and thoughts, object and ideas are contents so in meditation our awareness is released from identification with contents to focus on container.
When one becomes aware, consciousness starts to expand towards animal, trees, mountain, rivers, sky and whole universe as one is aware 100% he is conscious 100%. For example: stones, trees and animals has no possibility to be aware, doesn%u2019t mean consciousness doesn%u2019t exist.
Human has this wonderful possibly to be aware and if one is courageous enough starts to become aware and the quality to become aware is meditation.
Because only an enlighten person can able to invent techniques for meditation and only a courageous human being is ready to experiments these techniques creates an individual process to become conscious.
Science base on outer world search has reach to the same problem where these so-called spiritual teachers are. For example, for today%u2019s science, The universe is an object a container and because it is a container they found only 4% contents of universe is known matter and the rest 96% is just dark energy and dark matter. There are few courageous scientist who don%u2019t think universe as an object but everything which is exist is nothing but plasma and whatever is happening is just electricity moving into plasma. They claim 99.999% universe is plasma.
As per as inner world is concern, the situation is the same. These so-called spiritual teachers (Moon Mind) are able to say only 4% about consciousness and 96% is just they are covering their ignorance with beautiful words and so on%u2026
When a person enters into meditation, he has to face a big quantity of unconsciousness. As psychologists say we have 9 unconscious minds and only 1 conscious mind. That is the only difficulty and that is the only reason why there are very few who is ready make a quantum leap to go beyond Mind to No-Mind.
Meditation is not something to define. Unless meditation becomes a part of every day%u2019s activity, there is no hope to grow consciousness.
Meditation is The Only Solution!!!!

aman nomind on June 6, 2008, 8:40 AM

These are Moon Minds, who is trying to explain everything with their knowledgeable words. That is the main reason for their confusion while they have to define meditation.
First, how we actually experience meditation, when we%u2019re not trying to do it? (It is the awakening to consciousness itself) as if consciousness is the destination. How awareness can focus upon particular object that arise in consciousness, may be they are thoughts, object, ideas. As if thoughts, object, ideas are outcome of consciousness. Moon mind thinks consciousness as phenomena.
In summary as he is explaining: consciousness is container and thoughts, object and ideas are contents so in meditation our awareness is released from identification with contents to focus on container.
When one becomes aware, consciousness starts to expand towards animal, trees, mountain, rivers, sky and whole universe as one is aware 100% he is conscious 100%. For example: stones, trees and animals has no possibility to be aware, doesn%u2019t mean consciousness doesn%u2019t exist.
Human has this wonderful possibly to be aware and if one is courageous enough starts to become aware and the quality to become aware is meditation.
Because only an enlighten person can able to invent techniques for meditation and only a courageous human being is ready to experiments these techniques creates an individual process to become conscious.
Science base on outer world search has reach to the same problem where these so-called spiritual teachers are. For example, for today%u2019s science, The universe is an object a container and because it is a container they found only 4% contents of universe is known matter and the rest 96% is just dark energy and dark matter. There are few courageous scientist who don%u2019t think universe as an object but everything which is exist is nothing but plasma and whatever is happening is just electricity moving into plasma. They claim 99.999% universe is plasma.
As per as inner world is concern, the situation is the same. These so-called spiritual teachers (Moon Mind) are able to say only 4% about consciousness and 96% is just they are covering their ignorance with beautiful words and so on%u2026
When a person enters into meditation, he has to face a big quantity of unconsciousness. As psychologists say we have 9 unconscious minds and only 1 conscious mind. That is the only difficulty and that is the only reason why there are very few who is ready make a quantum leap to go beyond Mind to No-Mind.
Meditation is not something to define. Unless meditation becomes a part of every day%u2019s activity, there is no hope to grow consciousness.
Meditation is The Only Solution!!!!

Jeffrey Barrett on June 11, 2008, 5:28 PM

Meditation is a happening. It's reading these words. It cannot be taught or sought – only remembered in an 'ah ha' kind of way – like when one remembers a dream vividly and you wonder – 'how could I have possibly forgotten that!'. Try as we may, it seems to have to ripen of it's own accord. If we can anything it's getting out of our own way. The How of doing that is in using whatever comes our way. The ability to read this is effortless. The reality of our breathing is effortless. The thoughts arising right now and now arise effortlessly – hmm.

Jeffrey Barrett on June 11, 2008, 9:28 PM

Meditation is a happening. It’s reading these words. It cannot be taught or sought – only remembered in an ‘ah ha’ kind of way – like when one remembers a dream vividly and you wonder – ‘how could I have possibly forgotten that!’. Try as we may, it seems to have to ripen of it’s own accord. If we can anything it’s getting out of our own way. The How of doing that is in using whatever comes our way. The ability to read this is effortless. The reality of our breathing is effortless. The thoughts arising right now and now arise effortlessly – hmm.

Simon Henderson on June 12, 2008, 2:26 AM

It's interesting talking about Meditation, as it is truly an experiential practice… How much of our lives do we spend focused on and contemplating our own consciousness?

I found that after several 10 day silent retreats in India and Nepal, practicing Vipassana Meditation, I had a much stronger and more profound experience in a 45 minute drop in class at one of Andrew Cohen's EnlightenNext centres!

That got me thinking and I started exploring Andrew Cohen's teachings more…

I invite you to do the same…

jens albert kaae on June 12, 2008, 3:46 AM

meditation???Is it an experience? a tool? a road? a method?is it doing something? is doing nothing?
It al depends on the meditation method, and on how long you have been meditating.
I would say that meditacion is a road you take, to a place or state you dont know where or what is,a travel into the once known but long forgotten.

Simon Henderson on June 12, 2008, 6:26 AM

It’s interesting talking about Meditation, as it is truly an experiential practice… How much of our lives do we spend focused on and contemplating our own consciousness?

I found that after several 10 day silent retreats in India and Nepal, practicing Vipassana Meditation, I had a much stronger and more profound experience in a 45 minute drop in class at one of Andrew Cohen’s EnlightenNext centres!

That got me thinking and I started exploring Andrew Cohen’s teachings more…

I invite you to do the same…

jens albert kaae on June 12, 2008, 7:46 AM

meditation???Is it an experience? a tool? a road? a method?is it doing something? is doing nothing?
It al depends on the meditation method, and on how long you have been meditating.
I would say that meditacion is a road you take, to a place or state you dont know where or what is,a travel into the once known but long forgotten.

Geralyn Onslow on June 12, 2008, 11:57 AM

Mr Cohen should, of course, have prefaced 'his' definition of meditation as just that – his – and no one else's … we do not share experiences/thoughts/ideas the same way since we are individuals …. therefore there is no one definition of meditation.

Mark Falzon on June 12, 2008, 3:06 PM

My expereice of meditation is more about connection than disconnection. It seems to me that the greatest experience is when the filter of consciousnes falls away and there is complete union of the one. For me this is bliss and there is nothing more or less.

Geralyn Onslow on June 12, 2008, 3:57 PM

Mr Cohen should, of course, have prefaced ‘his’ definition of meditation as just that – his – and no one else’s … we do not share experiences/thoughts/ideas the same way since we are individuals …. therefore there is no one definition of meditation.

Denis Sheeran on June 12, 2008, 6:04 PM

hmm. hello healingzero, i think you need to be a little more open.

Mark Falzon on June 12, 2008, 7:06 PM

My expereice of meditation is more about connection than disconnection. It seems to me that the greatest experience is when the filter of consciousnes falls away and there is complete union of the one. For me this is bliss and there is nothing more or less.

Luke Allen on June 12, 2008, 7:56 PM

"So when awareness focuses on its own ground, which is consciousness, that%u2019s what meditation is." Cohen

WOW!!! Is there really people still dumb enough to believe this definition is anything but snake oil? A thing can never be defined by the same thing. An apple, defined, isn't helped by saying it's an apple. Come on people, all who agree, you did take a critical thinking class in college right? I guess by agreeing with this ludicrous example you haven't.

Cohen, you are not a prophet or enlightened. You are a modern day snake oil salesman and these are just your modern day sucker's. Good thing for you as PT Barnum first pointed out, a sucker is born every minute.

Luke Allen on June 12, 2008, 8:00 PM

O an GMAO you are correct, unfortunately, Mr. Cohen couldn't lead individuals he needs mindless drones to repeat the illogical statements he makes. If everyone was enlightened to any degree he'd be selling used vehicles.

Luke Allen on June 12, 2008, 8:52 PM

PLEASE go to www.strippingthegurus.com and read what this man really claims. It is free to read and his section is in chap. xxi (11)

Denis Sheeran on June 12, 2008, 10:04 PM

hmm. hello healingzero, i think you need to be a little more open.

Luke Allen on June 12, 2008, 11:56 PM

“So when awareness focuses on its own ground, which is consciousness, that%u2019s what meditation is.” Cohen

WOW!!! Is there really people still dumb enough to believe this definition is anything but snake oil? A thing can never be defined by the same thing. An apple, defined, isn’t helped by saying it’s an apple. Come on people, all who agree, you did take a critical thinking class in college right? I guess by agreeing with this ludicrous example you haven’t.

Cohen, you are not a prophet or enlightened. You are a modern day snake oil salesman and these are just your modern day sucker’s. Good thing for you as PT Barnum first pointed out, a sucker is born every minute.

Luke Allen on June 13, 2008, 12:00 AM

O an GMAO you are correct, unfortunately, Mr. Cohen couldn’t lead individuals he needs mindless drones to repeat the illogical statements he makes. If everyone was enlightened to any degree he’d be selling used vehicles.

Luke Allen on June 13, 2008, 12:52 AM

PLEASE go to www.strippingthegurus.com and read what this man really claims. It is free to read and his section is in chap. xxi (11)

Mike Westwater on June 13, 2008, 3:15 AM

The only true knowledge we have is what we experience, so the experience of meditation is almost impossible to convey to someone who has not experienced it. Thanks for trying Andrew – please keep trying.
Sorry luke84848, you're a tw*t.

Carl Ploss on June 13, 2008, 6:38 AM

Andrew Cohen's definition of meditation is not far from Patanjali's: when the thought waves (chitta vritti) reach the point of stillness, the Seer rests in his own nature. His words cannot be dismissed as clever new age mind-rot because he is not brash — successful yes, in the sense of reaching thousands, and ambitious, in the sense of entertaining big plans, but not brash, which implies shallowness. Tolle Oprah < Cohen

Mike Westwater on June 13, 2008, 7:15 AM

The only true knowledge we have is what we experience, so the experience of meditation is almost impossible to convey to someone who has not experienced it. Thanks for trying Andrew – please keep trying.
Sorry luke84848, you’re a tw*t.

Senna Steve on June 13, 2008, 8:24 AM

I agree with Mr. Cohen, but to put it more succinctly as Zen Master Tozan Ryokai did many years ago: "When erroneous imaginations cease, the acquiescent mind realizes itself".

Carl Ploss on June 13, 2008, 10:38 AM

Andrew Cohen’s definition of meditation is not far from Patanjali’s: when the thought waves (chitta vritti) reach the point of stillness, the Seer rests in his own nature. His words cannot be dismissed as clever new age mind-rot because he is not brash — successful yes, in the sense of reaching thousands, and ambitious, in the sense of entertaining big plans, but not brash, which implies shallowness. Tolle Oprah < Cohen

Senna Steve on June 13, 2008, 12:24 PM

I agree with Mr. Cohen, but to put it more succinctly as Zen Master Tozan Ryokai did many years ago: “When erroneous imaginations cease, the acquiescent mind realizes itself”.

Jeff Delano on June 14, 2008, 1:43 AM

Who are all of these other people posting? Are they all Andrew Cohens students or something? You guys should post on other ideas too.

But besides that, who cares about the definition of meditation really. You don't need some technique, just go with it and do it at your own pace and how it's most comfortable for you. What I tend to do in the most vague way is I learn and teach myself spiritual lessons and meanings by getting in contact with the higher self.

Jeff Delano on June 14, 2008, 5:43 AM

Who are all of these other people posting? Are they all Andrew Cohens students or something? You guys should post on other ideas too.

But besides that, who cares about the definition of meditation really. You don’t need some technique, just go with it and do it at your own pace and how it’s most comfortable for you. What I tend to do in the most vague way is I learn and teach myself spiritual lessons and meanings by getting in contact with the higher self.

Luke Allen on June 14, 2008, 7:03 PM

Yeah Jeff it is kinda odd… it's like he sent his drones in here to try to defend him but they prove their lack of viability by not having any idea's or postings of their own. Drones are all a snake oil salesman, like Andrew Cohen is, can handle around him.

And itious if I am a tw*t by what standard? If you want to try to put some one down at least have the decency of a definition; like I know you are a drone because you have no original ideas or thoughts… see the truth will set you free, simpleton.

Luke Allen on June 14, 2008, 11:03 PM

Yeah Jeff it is kinda odd… it’s like he sent his drones in here to try to defend him but they prove their lack of viability by not having any idea’s or postings of their own. Drones are all a snake oil salesman, like Andrew Cohen is, can handle around him.

And itious if I am a tw*t by what standard? If you want to try to put some one down at least have the decency of a definition; like I know you are a drone because you have no original ideas or thoughts… see the truth will set you free, simpleton.

Musycks on June 16, 2008, 9:21 PM

would the Buddha have taken $2 million off one of his followers for passing on enlightenment? Nice guy. The only thing Andy boy is enlightening is his bank balance.

Musycks on June 17, 2008, 1:21 AM

would the Buddha have taken $2 million off one of his followers for passing on enlightenment? Nice guy. The only thing Andy boy is enlightening is his bank balance.

Ron Alexander on June 24, 2008, 10:24 AM

I enjoy Thich Nhat Hanh's teaching of everyday meditation: "Mindfulness."
Where all that we do can be meditation if we are completely focused in the moment on walking, doing the dishes, writing here, etc.

Ron Alexander on June 24, 2008, 2:24 PM

I enjoy Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching of everyday meditation: “Mindfulness.”
Where all that we do can be meditation if we are completely focused in the moment on walking, doing the dishes, writing here, etc.

Big Thinker on July 1, 2008, 12:11 PM

To all who have suggested that Cohen is a bit of a charlatan – in it for the money and nothing else – we’re just wondering…Is it possible to live in the United States, our oh-so-snake-oily society, as a true enlightened scholar and thinker?

On another note, we’re truly enjoying your critiques, both negative and positive, of Cohen’s definition.

Luke Allen on July 3, 2008, 7:50 AM

Hey Big Thinker:

First, Thank you for such a wonderful website!

Second, your question: "Is it possible to live in the United States, our oh-so-snake-oily society, as a true enlightened scholar and thinker?"

Absolutely! You have a few great ones on here. The differences are in the teaching.

There are two points I would distinguish as one who is an enlightened scholar and thinker:

1. point: The ability to say something new. I don't have to agree or disagree if it is new than it is "enlightened".

2. point: one can not be "enlightened" teaching either extreme that we are nothing and ego is evil or we are everything and all Gods. Either extreme is old fanaticism that perpetuates arcane thinking.

Cohen perpetuates that people are nothing. This the root of alot of suffering. By devaluing the individual he exploits people and one day will be charged with fraud. Cohen will wind up in jail, just like Marshyl Silver and other con artists. Con artists like Cohen always wind up in jail.

Finally, you have a bigthinker on here Irwin Kula who states beautifully the role of the modern individual. He states: "You are not as powerful as you fantasize about, and you are not as powerlessness as your nightmares" Also his idea of what is a successful life is if you can say: "I really, relatively speaking, continue to grow and understand who I am." This is an enlightened thinker. And because of your wonderful website bigthinker I can say I am successful by that definition. Thanks for the question.

Luke Allen on July 3, 2008, 11:50 AM

Hey Big Thinker:

First, Thank you for such a wonderful website!

Second, your question: “Is it possible to live in the United States, our oh-so-snake-oily society, as a true enlightened scholar and thinker?”

Absolutely! You have a few great ones on here. The differences are in the teaching.

There are two points I would distinguish as one who is an enlightened scholar and thinker:

1. point: The ability to say something new. I don’t have to agree or disagree if it is new than it is “enlightened”.

2. point: one can not be “enlightened” teaching either extreme that we are nothing and ego is evil or we are everything and all Gods. Either extreme is old fanaticism that perpetuates arcane thinking.

Cohen perpetuates that people are nothing. This the root of alot of suffering. By devaluing the individual he exploits people and one day will be charged with fraud. Cohen will wind up in jail, just like Marshyl Silver and other con artists. Con artists like Cohen always wind up in jail.

Finally, you have a bigthinker on here Irwin Kula who states beautifully the role of the modern individual. He states: “You are not as powerful as you fantasize about, and you are not as powerlessness as your nightmares” Also his idea of what is a successful life is if you can say: “I really, relatively speaking, continue to grow and understand who I am.” This is an enlightened thinker. And because of your wonderful website bigthinker I can say I am successful by that definition. Thanks for the question.

Michael Bertrand on July 11, 2008, 4:48 AM

I voted neutral on this one, because Mr. Cohen's answer is so vague. This is a common trend in New Age waters.

Meditation is simply a practice by which we clear our mind of all the bit and pieces of unfinished thoughts and emotions that accumulate over time. It is analogous to defragmenting the RAM in your computer to make it run faster. One need not drag in mysticism, psychobabble, or New Age double-speak. It's just a way of clearing your mind… hence the whole "do nothing" aspect of meditation. You truly are trying to do nothing, in the sense that you are trying to release everything in your mind.

Michael Bertrand on July 11, 2008, 8:48 AM

I voted neutral on this one, because Mr. Cohen’s answer is so vague. This is a common trend in New Age waters.

Meditation is simply a practice by which we clear our mind of all the bit and pieces of unfinished thoughts and emotions that accumulate over time. It is analogous to defragmenting the RAM in your computer to make it run faster. One need not drag in mysticism, psychobabble, or New Age double-speak. It’s just a way of clearing your mind… hence the whole “do nothing” aspect of meditation. You truly are trying to do nothing, in the sense that you are trying to release everything in your mind.

Musycks on July 28, 2008, 9:56 PM

Big Thinker,
I doubt that Cohen is only in it for the money? I'm sure he's convinced himself and some of his followers he's doing good.. and if he earns a bucket load of money in the process then this is just the universe repaying him what he's worth.
Still, I'm sure Jim Jones thought he was doing good.

Musycks on July 29, 2008, 1:56 AM

Big Thinker,
I doubt that Cohen is only in it for the money? I’m sure he’s convinced himself and some of his followers he’s doing good.. and if he earns a bucket load of money in the process then this is just the universe repaying him what he’s worth.
Still, I’m sure Jim Jones thought he was doing good.

Richard Berke on January 19, 2009, 5:39 PM

I think that it is reasonable to question the motives of those presenting ideas. However, we should be even more care to question the motives of political leaders who take billions of dollars to fight wars that in many cases do not need to be fought and risking lives that need not be lost. Somebody capitalizing on spiritual teaching does make some people uncomfortable, but if they are not preaching hate, violence or other harm, there’s probably very little damage in the end. Bottom line is that if you sort of like the message, but not the messenger here, find another teacher or source of information.

Kyle Rybski on April 29, 2009, 5:37 AM

Meditation seems like a needless, mystical synonym for introspection.

Robert Bullock on June 10, 2009, 6:27 PM

My “problem” with guys like Cohen is that they tend not to lead you to the source of these ideas. An authentic spiritual teacher almost always teaches within the context of a particular lineage, tradition or text, helping you to understand the meaning of the ideas and implement the methods. I don’t get that feeling when I listen to guys like Andrew Cohen or Surya Das. They wreak of ego and materialism. 

Robert Bullock on June 10, 2009, 6:35 PM

Kyle, it might seem that way given the descriptions offered by most “gurus”… While in a sense meditation can be introspective – you spend a lot of time looking at your own mind – introspection is very conceptual whereas meditation is not.

Of course, I could say meditation is this or that, but there’s no simple definition that would suffice. The only way to “get it” is to study authentic (i.e., not pop) teachings and/or learn from an authentic spiritual teacher (i.e., not Andrew Cohen, Deepak Chopra or Lama Surya Das, Ashanti)! Even most of the books out there “by” H.H. The Dalai Lama are rather “pop” in their approach. 

Finding “the real deal” isn’t easy, but it’s worth the search. Everything that needed to be SAID about meditation was said a long, long time ago. That’s a hint. ;-)